1) I am new to this message board and appreciate referrals to archived messages if I'm repeating a topic.

2) Just getting started in open water paddling.I welcome the opportunity to learn from your expercience.

Today I paddled the new Current Designs Cypress during a demo paddle. I really liked the boat a lot. Very comfortable, easy to handle, quick and manuverable.

On the way home, I was looking at the CD catalog and noticed that the CD Willow is the same boat as the Cypress, but the Willow is approx. one foot shorter (Willow is 15'6", Cypress is 16'9"). Do these few inches make that big of a difference in oopen water paddling? If so, why?

This will not be my first boat. I have been paddling with my husband for about three years now. Done a lot of Florida's wonderful streams, rivers and lakes. I currently paddle a CD Kestrel 140. We've started taking some Gulf side trips.I'd like a better boat for open water so that its easier to get back upstream against an outgoing tide to landing points. I can do these in the Kestrel, but keeping up is an issue when your pushing a 26" wide boat.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any guidance. Thanks!

deb

Hi Deb,

Welcome to the forum.

I'll leave the answers to your questions to those more qualified and experienced then me.

Cheers

Bill

Okay, here's the best advice I can give anyone looking for a new open water boat. And this is coming from a guy who is a CD owner. Take a real good look at NC Kayaks. I've looked at a lot of sea kayaks and I dearly love my Sirocco, but if I were going to get a new boat, I believe it would have to be an NC. These boats are simply the best built, best thought out and best looking boats I have ever seen. They are built in a little shop in Tacoma, Washington and are shipped free to anywhere in the U.S.

Look at the kayak reviews at Paddling net., and by all means go to NC Kayaks website. If by some chance you do find these fabulous boats interesting, I believe the Lt version is well worth the $300 extra cost.

It is impossible to over emphasize how well built and how fabulously beautifull these boats are. I think the great people at NC could put you in touch with some owners in the Florida area.

Thanks for the advice. I will look at them. My husband is pretty smitten with the NC (although we don't own one). Just been really happy with the CD boat that I own and the ones I have paddled. The attention to detail and the comfort of the CD boats, along with their reasonable pricing, have always inpressed me.

I'll look at the NC website and see who is local. Guess I should paddle a few more boats before I make a decision. (This will make my husband happy...I won't staring at my CD catalog and sighing)

Thanks!

I totally agree that CD boats are super, but NCs are a few notches higher and they cost a lot less. However, if you do decide on a CD, be sure to take a real good look at the Sirocco, or Gulf Stream. These boats not only are fantastic performers, but their style and looks are unsurpassed. Those long pointy ends are superb.

Looked at the NC website. They are fine looking boats and the prices are very good. It would be cool to own something a little unique for the Florida side of the country. Down side (as eluded to in your post) are that they are only available on-line; they also seem to have a limited number of models available (But ya gotta start somewhere!); The only two ways I could try one out is to find someone in Floida that has a model I am interested in and hope they would let me try theirs or fly to West Coast.

The CD Boats of comparable size seem to have more storage; also have a very good reputation; are more readily available so I can try them out. (I've experienced the importance of this because I was not very impressed with what I went to paddle at the demo and very impressed with a boat that I had ruled out on size alone.)

Which brings me back to my original question...does length make a difference for an open water boat and why? I know nothing under 14 ft and understand the reasoning there.

Hope to try out some more boats when we go to the Fla keys in a couple of weeks. They have a very impressive outfitter in Key Largo that we stopped at before, just so happens he carries Current Designs.

Thanks again,

Deb,

Length is an important factor in the speed potential for a displacement hull (ie a boat hull that does not plane). Of course other factors also enter into the equation such as wetted surface, beam etc. But, as a rule if you have two boats of different lengths and other factors similar the longer hull will be capable of being paddled faster.

Michael

Okay, speed will be related to dispacement of water...I believe that will also have an effect on coming up to speed. This could be an issue especially if we're trying to get from point A to B. Especially because I like to stop and look at things, it would be easier for me to catch back up.( Hello beautiful stingray, look turtles!, oooo pretty corals, your an interesting little fishy, give me a good look so I can look you up when we get home..)

Guess length would also affect how much stuff I can carry. Okay I think I'm starting to get it. I did some research on hull designs and length re: to waves and stability.

Interesting stuff. This will be important because even the placid Gulf of Mexico can be funiky when those afternoon thunderstorms blow up out of the west.

Now beginning to research soft chine vs hard chine...

Any opinions there?

I would not get too hung up on particular aspects of design, because the total blend of all the features is more important. I also wouldn't let first impressions rule. I have found that boats that felt pretty tippy at first, later feel quite stable.

NC doesn't maintain a quantity of stock boats. Just about all of the boats they build are custom built. An order usually takes about 3 weeks. They do have a few boats on hand for demo, etc.

I agree, the blend of all the particulars is what's most important. Different people are going to prefer different boats, even when they have a common goal.

I also think that having a working, even if it is basic, understanding of the particulars helps one figure out what will work best for them in the long run.

Would love to paddle an NC, but just can't make it out to the West Coast. At least not this year.

I will pay attention to the whole package, as you suggest and plan to paddle a few more boats not letting my first impression be my ONLY guide. However that first impression helps to narrow the field & set the bar. I'm keeping a speadsheet on the boats I paddle (helps me to remember which one is which).

When the time finally comes, I'll make an educated decision. Information obtained from these forums helps guide the process.

Thanks for the advice,

Deb,
What hasn't been mentioned is size - your size. It is really important to find a boat that fits your body size, strength and stamina. I know of several paddlers who use boats that are really too large for them. They are less efficient and waste more energy paddling a larger boat and as a result tire sooner on longer trips. An example is a small framed women of about 5'4" who paddles (and loves) a CD Caribou, but she would do so much better in a smaller craft - maybe CD's new Suka.

BTW, there are some great open water boats under 14', but as a general rule you want a boat with at least a fore and aft bulkhead (2 hatches) and a 3rd hatch (or day hatch) can be mighty handy.

One of our local shops in NY has a nice web site which lists boats that are acceptable for use on their tours, mostly on the Hudson River. It's a bit of a subjective list, but conditions can warrant a conservative approach. Here's the link to the list: http://www.atlantickayaktours.com/pages/subpages/Kayak-List.shtml Their website also has a wealth of good information on it, so you might want to spend some research time there.

If you are heading to FL and can get to the west coast I highly reccommend a visit to Sweetwater Kayaks (St. Petersburg area). Their staff are highly trained and experienced sea kayakers, nice people, and would steer you in the right direction. They also have several different brands of boats that you can test paddle.

Bonecrusher

Thank you! Actually, I live in Florida and consider myself fortunate for it. Many different types of paddling opportunities.

My husband has been paddling for 20+ years, and had taught me a lot about paddling. He even gives me "minimum criteria" that he considers essential, but knows me well enough to know that I like to research things out and make my own decision. We both are just getting started in open water.

The formation of a new group to manage and maintain the Florida Circumnavigational Paddle Trail has a lot to do with this as we both plan to be involved. He has an open water boat, I use my Kestrel 140.

Great boat, but at 26" wide, can be hard to push up stream against an out going tide. The larger cockpit has been great for rivers & lakes, but I'd like a smaller cockpit for open water. My Kestrel works fine for me for most of my paddling opportunities.

Have checked some info sites that explain things like length, width, etc. But I feel an important resource is the knowledge of others, like you and the folks that have reponded. I am taking my height & weight as a factor and choosing boats to paddle according to most of the manufactuer's suggestions in this area. Nice of you to think of it though, I think it gets overlooked a lot.

Also important is the illusive "it". The feature that happens magically when things just seem to fit just right. Bad part of "it" is that "it" can change, so it is important to paddle the boat on different days under different conditions to be sure "it" is real and not just a fleeting fancy.

Everything I learn will play a factor in my final decision. Oh! yea, my darling husband also has the final say...usually I get what I want though. So far the CD Cypress is my boat of choice.

Appreciate the website info.

Deb

PS:
Here are some of the sites re: design I've looked at:
http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/smhydro/hydro.htm
http://www.nimbuskayaks.com/KayakDesign.htm
http://www.qcckayaks.com/resources/howlong.asp
http://www.topkayaker.net/Articles/Instruction/HullDesign.htm

Happi, I think your leading choice is probably a good one, but the Cypress is a brand new design. That in itself is not anything to be afraid of, but you know sometimes new designs have to be refined a bit after they've been out for a while.

I know I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but if you like the CD Cypress, my bet is that you would be ecstatic about an NC seventeen footer. These boats have been around long enough and have been refined in ways that other builders haven't even thought of. You would just have to see the details like their seats, their hull to deck seem and spray/rub strip, their reinforced, cockpit floor, the nonslip coaming and other features that show the amount of detailed refinement that these boats offer.

On the other hand, if you were to acquire an NC, you might lose it to your husband--just kidding. Seriously, I sure wish you could get to see one of these boats, they simply are the best of the best and I know by now you must think I have some connection to NC, but I assure you I do not. I just think a kayaker like you, ought to be apprised of what is available and maybe save you from a regret.

I do admit they have some very pretty color patterns. I have e-mailed them looking for Florida "locals" who may not mind me looking, possibly even trying their boats. Trying to keep an open mind.

Looks like NC has the "it" factor for you. I'll let you know what I find out.

Thanks!

Well I tried, but no NC boats to try even close to where I am or can travel to in a reasonable length of time. Nice people from NC were prompt in their response, but no luck.