Ever since I began sea kayaking, I've carried an anemometer. First one was the simple Dwyer with the little bouncing pith ball in the tube--worked great for probably 15 years until leaking deet (potent stuff!) ate it away. Now I have a Kestral 1000 hanging on a cord around my neck, inside my PFD, when I'm out on the water. It's important to know, really, how hard the wind is blowing. I remember a Message Board dialog with someone who had just returned from paddling on Lake Champlain, off Burlington VT (a lee shore) in "35 mph" winds, and it had been great! I inquired how he knew that the wind was 35 mph--did he take a reading with an anemometer? No, he hadn't, but the radio news that day had said that the winds had been 35 mph, so it was blowing 35. Now a 35 mph wind is high-end Beaufort Force 7, Moderate Gale. In Sea Canoeing, Derek Hutchinson writes,"Very Difficult--You MUST be strong and experienced; your equipment should be good. Seas are big. (Kayaks) difficult to turn. Very difficult to make headway. Wind catches at paddle blades. Foam is blown off in long white streaks, lots of spray. Communication very difficult."

My point here is that, without knowing what the wind speed actually was where and when he was paddling, the Lake Champlain kayaker still felt able to state that he had been out in 35 mph winds and it was no problem. And others might therefore conclude, Hey--Whatzit was out the other day in 35 mph winds, and it was no big deal. It may have actually been blowing 35 mph at some time that day on some anemometer high atop a building in Burlington, but maybe no more than 15 or 20 down at water level on the lake, but, without an actual reading in the boat, down on the water, who knows? My own experience is that it is best to form one's own opinions about what strength winds to paddle in comfortably and safely by actually taking the readings and comparing them with the conditions around you. Most people will find that the effect of the wind on you at any stated velocity is greater than you think it "ought" to be, based on reports supplied about wind speed that are hearsay or guesswork.

I have to agree that estimating wind speed isn't all that easy and if the fella who was kayaking on Lake Champlain was in an area that had any fetch in a 35 mph wind and he thought it was great--well the guy has my respect.

My experience is that when wind-speeds reach that velocity, it is usually gusty and that compounds the difficulty. When I was involved with sailing, a 35 mph wind would call for some very serious reefing and sail changing. In large bodies of water the waves will be breaking and will be very, very large.

http://www.zetnet.co.uk/sigs/weather/Met_Codes/beaufort.htm

You could try this method but (and isn't there always one)
you have to take into account any currents that may be running and the fetch (distance wind has to travel over the water where you happen to be bobbing up and down). There is also the wind shadow from hills the difference in local conditions within a few miles of each other. etc etc. Having a wind guage on hand would be the only way you could accurately report the wind strength in your area but I don't think it's something I would be carrying in my pfd. It may give you bragging rights at the pub but........



Cheers
Bill

Bill, I'm not sure I fully understand your reply. Here's my guess as to the points you were making; correct me if I'm wrong: 1) a kayaker should consider memorizing the Beaufort Scale, especially the descriptions of sea state, and taking into account issues of fetch, current, etc., and thus determine the wind strength, and 2) an anemometer is not something that a kayaker (you) would consider carrying on a cord around your neck. tucked into your PFD. I'm especially interested in the "bragging rights at the local pub, but...." part of your reply. What comes after the but....?

As for 1): I use David Burch's rough guide in Fundamentals of Kayak Navigation--scattered "popcorn" equals about 10 knots; "popcorn" everywhere equals about 20 knots; spray blown off tops of waves, and streaks of foam equals 30 plus knots.

As for 2), I just think it's better to know what the wind strength is, rather than just to guess what it is. The Kestral 1000 is approx. 45mm x 115mm x 20mm and weighs almost nothing--a triumph of modern engineering. Plenty of room inside my PFD for it. Try it; you'll like it!

StrangeMagic,

You don't seem to have understood my message at all.

I suggested people have a look at the Beafort scale but with the understanding that there are other factors which will affect the observation. It is however a legitimate tool that can be used to guage wind strength and has been for several hundred years.

I also said using a guage would be the only accurate way of measuring wind strength.

No I would never wear one on a cord around my neck. You and anyone else can if they wish.

Bragging rights. I may have been on the wrong track here and apologise if I offended you. I initially thought it was to tell people what strong winds you had been out in. After I reread your initial thread I realised it was not the case.

However (this is a bit of Aussie humour if you don't get it please take offense)I live in a town where most of my friends are fishermen either amateur or professional if I was to go to the pub armed with only "factual" data about the conditions of my last paddle I would stand no chance against the fishermans epic tale about the one that got away.


Cheers

Bill

i have to agree with bill here.
knowing what the wind strength is all very well, but surely you can look at the water and get feel on your face and get some sort of idea about what kind of wind speed you are dealing with.
if you are working or on a major expedition where you are operating under managment plans then knowing the exact speed can be a good legal tool, i.e knowing when to make the exact call about whether or not to get on/off the water.
however for a general personal day paddle, if you can't work out the conditions with your eyes and ears you should probably consider not going out. if you're ummming and arghing then it's probably best to err on the side of caution. that's what i was always taught anyway.
it's a bit like using a gps as your first navigation tool, I only pull it out when I can't see any features and am concerned about drift.
a wind speed reader would probably be the same with me, it would spend all it's time tucked away and only tell me what i've already deduced myself.
however as i mentioned above i can see where they can come in handy.
as for bill's "but......", it's an aussie piece of slang, it's like a canadian saying "eh", it doesn't really mean anything and there wasn't anything to follow it. and i totally 100% agree about the bragging rights, it sure helps to get the beers and stories flowing when you can tell the local boaties that you were out in 30knotts the other day and pull out some little gadget they can look at that says so!!
happy paddling and good luck
lachie

After having carefully studied the replies of my antipodean friends Bill and Lachlan, I have to conclude that they have no real objection--they cannot have any real objection (who could?)--to the idea of knowing what the wind speed is, really. But they, personally, can live without knowing it, and so could I. But why should I? They choose not to consider carrying an anemometer out on the water with them; I choose to do so. (I have a compass on my boat, too, though I could probably do without it.)

But as I obviously failed to make crystal-clear in my initial post, some paddlers do go out onto water in perfectly ordinary windy conditions thinking that they are paddling in "30- or 40-knot" winds and think they're doing just fine, because the weather report for that day said the winds would be 30 or 40 knots. And so they are led to believe, erroneously, that it's OK for them to consider paddling in 30- or 40-knot winds (and maybe lead others into paddling with them), when the truth may be that an anemometer would have told them that it was REALLY blowing just 15 or 20 knots. That's my point. It's better to know, and it's easy to know, how hard the wind is blowing, really.

StrangeMagic,

I hope that one day we might both be out enjoying a paddle together and if the wind kicks and provides us with a fun paddle home I may just reach across and ask you what the wind is blowing.


Cheers

Bill

Bill, Australia is just about Number One on my list of great places I'd love to visit--I could stay for months checking out the terrain, wildlife, the great paddling opportunities, the awesome astronomy of those southern, dark skies, and the marvelous people of Australia. If I ever make it down there, I'll make sure we get to paddle together, and I'll show you that Kestrel (it shows Beaufort readings, as well as knots, mph, feet per minute, mps, or kilometers per hour, as instantaneous, average, or maximum).

Since I first posted this, I've continued to monitor wind speeds with my anemometer on kayaking trips, and to check out what others say the wind speed was on their outings. My last trip in "strong" winds was in a protected bay, in a measured 16-20 knots of air, paddling both into it and then taking the wind and waves on the beam. it was rough paddling, with us taking 2 hours to cover 4 sea miles, a figure that corresponds well with David Burch's estimated speed chart in his Fundamentals of Kayak Navigation. I also remember well a trip when a nor'easter rapidly overtook us on another protected bay. With the kayak bow thrust into a Phragmites-covered shoreline, the wind was blowing at 25 mph (statute), and, as we took refuge in a fishing/hunting shack on an island, the shack's anemometer atop a pole registered gusts of 45 mph. I know that while we were on the water, the wind threatened us constantly with capsize just from its force alone.

While browsing through the June 2006 SK, I came across Chris Cunningham's "foredeck" account of his day riding the storm waves on Puget Sound, in winds that "seemed to be every bit of 40 miles per hour." I know Chris to be an accomplished paddler, but, without an actual anemometer reading, how hard does he know the wind was blowing, really? I've become increasingly sceptical about ALL paddler-reported wind speeds and wave heights (including my own past reports) that are not registered by anemometer readings or by other objective measure. As I indicated before, the tendency to tell a good story may lead others into believing that they too can safely go out and paddle in "40 mph" winds (Beaufort Force 8!).

Strange magic,

I can see your point with people believing they can achieve a good paddle in winds that have been reported by others which may have been incorrect. For a start I think that every paddler should adopt the international convention of using Knots and nautical miles to report. When I've explained why I didn't go out today becasue the forcast was for 25 knots people look a me with a blank look. I then have to explain that that is approx equal to 46km per hour (we are metric in Oz). The conversion of knot/miles is not too different (29mph)but still errors can compound.

And yes I have thought about buying an anemometer for my personal use to keep an accurate log of my paddles.

Cheers Bill

I agree that amatuer reports of wind speed and wave height are likely to be inaccurate, sometimes wildly so. I am not likely to stow my paddle and hold an anemometer over my head when things get rough.
All my kayaking stories have waves of only three heights; 0ne foot (lapping at the side of my boat), Three foot (the boat plunges over or through the wave), and Six foot (I can't see the paddler in front of me).
Learning the beufort scale to describe wind speed might help, but many of the clues the beufort scale uses (smoke, flags, tree branchs) are irrellavent out on the bay. Perhaps instead of reporting a wave height or windspeed we can't judge we should just report what the wind/waves were really doing.

osprey

There is Beaufort scale specifically for the sea using wave conditions as its basis. In fact this was the original use.

Cheers

Bill

Bill, I couldn't agree more with your notion that sea kayakers should think and express themselves as mariners do: velocities in knots, distances in nautical (sea) miles. With our physical closeness to the water, wind, weather, currents, tides, if anyone ought to think of themselves as mariners, it is the sea kayaking community.

Osprey, I like your idea on reporting wave height. And in the absence of measured speeds and heights, let's just report what we see. David Burch's "scattered popcorn" for approx. 10 knots of wind, "popcorn everywhere" for 20 knots, and "conspicuous spray....and streaks of foam" for 30 knots, seems to work pretty well as a kayaker's version of the Beaufort Scale.

"A kayakers version"
I like that. Good information.

In my limited experiences with ocean kayaking, I've noticed that windspeed is only part of the equation and that there are other factors that are surprisingly important (well, surprising to me, anyway). Like the direction of the current relative to wind direction --- if the wind and currents are going in opposite directions, the swell/chop seems to increase in amplitude and decrease in wavelength, making for much nastier conditions but if the wind is blowing the same way the current is going it has a marked calming effect.
The more information you have, and the more accurate it is, the better.
Because I don't have a drysuit yet and am still learning, and go solo a lot, anything over Beaufort scale 4 conditions makes me think twice.

Cyberhun, do you have & use an anemometer? And you're certainly right about wind-over-tide situations where wave lengths shorten and wave heights increase dramatically. My own experience with reports (including my own) of wind speeds and wave heights is that we tend to overestimate them quite severely--about 150% for wind speed and often 200% (2X) for height, and maybe more. I'm currently reading a GREAT book, "Blazing Paddles" by Brian Wilson. It's his account of his solo circumnavigation of Scotland, in conditions of wind and wave, tide and current that are far beyond what I'll ever attempt. Without in any way detracting from Wilson's skills or accomplishments, though, it is clear that wave heights and wind speeds that he reports are his on-the-spot "estimates" only--guesses really, made under conditions of maximum excitement and stress--and that a paddler, no matter how strong or skillful, could never survive the wave heights (during surf landings and launchings) and wind speeds he reports. But read the book for yourself.

I don't own an anemometer and knowing exact wind speeds isn't something that is important to me. What is important is seeing and feeling the conditions (wind, waves, water, etc) and then making a judgment call as to whether or not I want to paddle.

In my local area I can guess pretty accurately what the conditions will be based on the wind reports. Whether or not those reports are accurate I don't know, but they are consistent. If I am paddling in a new area I go and check things out in person. Even if I know the accurate wind speed I have no idea what its effects will be in an area that is unfamiliar to me.

Also, it doesn't matter to me what other people can paddle or what they claim to paddle. What matters to me is what conditions I can handle, or what conditions I feel like handling that day.

OceanAir, your detachment is admirable. So long as you do not communicate with other paddlers about wind and sea conditions, then your indifference to the actual, measured wind speed makes no difference whatever to anyone else's decisions about when and where to paddle. The value of actually knowing how hard the wind is blowing is that it provides a common, verifiable language among kayakers and other mariners, just like agreeing on a common standard for measuring distance (sea miles), boat or wind speed (knots), etc. Anemometers, viewed in this light, are just like a kayaker having charts, timepieces, compasses, etc.; an anemometer is yet another tool for knowing what's really going on around you, and being able to exchange accurate data with others.

I agree that it is important, but... what do you do with that information. How wind effects an area is more important that just knowing its speed, that information you can not get from an anemometer.

Simply put, I don't think about what I can paddle in terms of what other people can paddle. I know the upper limit of my ability, and also know that lots of people can paddle in conditions beyond my limits. I don't think that because someone else claimed to paddle in a certain wind speed, or even actually paddled in a certain wind speed, means I will be able paddle in those conditions.

Maybe it is just me but I have never heard people use wind speed as a qualifying factor for paddling an area. I have never come across such phrases as 'you are safe to paddle in that area as long as the wind is below 15 knots', or 'I have paddled in 35 knot winds so you should be able to as well'.

Sure knowing the wind speed is useful, but how useful? 15 knots in one area might mean something totally different than 15 in another area. Or a N wind might have a completely different effect than a NW wind. Obviously paddling in an area in calm conditions is much easier than paddling in difficult conditions. I base that decision not on the numerical speed of the wind but how the wind feels (not just on my skin but also in my judgment). Wind predictions are rarely accurate and conditions can change at anytime (in fact they are constantly changing).

hmm... after thinking about it... I think a numerical value for wind speed is an over simplification, especially when it comes to ocean conditions, personal ability, and personal comfort.

Before I decide where to go paddling (or IF to go paddling), I check the weather report. Wind direction and speed are the two most important pieces of data for any experienced kayaker. We all know that people do use wind speed (and direction) as a qualifying factor for paddling an area. I grant that predictions of wind, weather, etc. are often erroneous, as are reports kayakers give of conditions (wave height, wind speed) that they paddled in. I cited several examples in my previous posts of paddlers reporting, without any actual measurement, that they were out in "35" or "40" mph winds, and that things were just fine, exciting, exhilarating, blah. And that such unsubstantiated reports could lead other, less experienced kayakers into thinking that they also could paddle in "35-40" mph winds. By all means don't bring or use an anemometer on the water or at the launch site if you don't want to, but don't tell anybody else that the winds were blowing at ......mph or knots or whatever, if you don't really know.

hmmm... I understand your point, but at the same time - what if those wind reports were accurate? What if some people can and do paddle in 35 knot winds? Does that mean they should not tell other people about the conditions they paddle in? Does that mean that everyone should assume they can paddle in the same conditions of everyone else?

Should the same go for wave height, surf period, frequency, tidal current, uv index, or any other factor in paddling? If I miss judge wave height and someone tries to paddle in those conditions is it my fault? Or rather, if I can paddle in 30 knot winds and report that I can and did paddle in 30 knot winds, does that mean everyone just assumes they can paddle in 30 knot winds as well? Am I some how responsible if people misjudge their ability, or over estimate their ability based on what I am able to paddle?

If some people can and do paddle comfortably in 30 or 35 knots winds (uncommon maybe), I assume that we KNOW this, or they KNOW this because somebody was carrying and using an anemometer, and not just guessing. I assume that we are not just taking someone's impression of what the wind speed, wave height (always a puzzler!) etc. was, as a substitute for an actual datum. Now, with GPS, kayakers can get a lot closer to accurately measuring current speed also. My point, again, is that it is better to know, and relatively easy to know, with an anemometer, how hard the wind is blowing, really.

Here's the ideal scenario: superpaddler A goes out with his anemometer, and determines that he is happily and safely paddling in 30-knot winds. Less-experienced paddler B, also armed with an anemometer, visits same site, holds up his anemometer on the beach. It reads 30 knots. He looks at the water and quickly realizes that 30 knots of air, and the subsequent waves, are way beyond his abilities. Thus, both parties actually know how hard the wind is blowing, and can make more informed judgments about how, when, where to paddle.

Frequent use of an anemometer helps to calibrate our subjective impressions of conditions on the water with an actual, measured wind speed. Like a thermometer, or a ruler, or a chart, or a compass, an anemometer is just another way of quantifying phenomena such that people can accurately evaluate the magnitude of phenomena and then communicate with one another.

Well,I went for a paddle with a few mates the other day and it was blowing a bit ,and I saw this gizmo that Barry had and thought it was a GPS or something but it was an anemometer and I said what the hell do you want for.So we had a guessing game on the wind strength .I said I thought it was about 18 to 20 KPH.We checked it and it was 10.3 ,I was amazed,obviously I have been over estimating for awhile so thats blown my paddling stories for awhile.

Wavehog, thanks for your input. If you get an anemometer, you'll have fun deflating your paddling mates' tall tales about paddling in "30-knot" winds, etc. Your experience with Barry and his anemometer is almost universal--people almost always are misinformed and overconfident about what wind strengths they believe they have paddled in or can paddle safely in. As Chairman Mao, The Great Helmsman, said, "Learn Truth From Facts!" An anemometer can supply those facts.

I'm bumping up this thread so that it will better correspond with the latest Sea Kayaker newsletter (Dec. 2, No. 20). SK's editor Chris Cunningham there addresses this subject of gauging wind speed. Chris reminds us of Eric Soares' notion of calibrating one's ability to accurately assess wind speed by use of an anemometer--you use the anemometer to train yourself to get better and better at determining wind speed on the water. I wholeheartedly recommend this. Take a look at the December Newsletter on this SK website, and check it out.

These threads can stay dormant for a while. Just thought I'd add something that I read this morning in a book called "The Proving Ground" by G. Bruce Knecht. It is an account of the ill-fated "Hobart" ocean sailing race of 1998 when the weather really got out of hand and even these incredibly experienced sailors didn't understand the relationship between wind speed and the force of the wind. The senior meteorologist was quoted in the book as saying, "The power of the wind increases disproportionately to its speed. In mathematical terms, the force of the wind equals the square of its speed. Therefore an increase from 50 to 60, a 20% increase in speed, amounts to an increase in power of 40%."
I like the idea (for those of you that are so inclined to carry the anemometer and go out on the briny wave) to use it regularly to train your senses. I regularly used topos when taking out canoe trips and training people in navigation to identify and train the eye to size on the ground. If I was near a tiny island at the beginning of a trip, I would take out my map and look at how big it is on the map and on the ground and basically wait until someone asked me what I was doing because we know where we are, because the cars are still in site. I would tell them that I was "scaling my eyes." I know 100% that is that island on the map, so now I can train my brain to recognize that that size on the map is that big in the world. The same idea for wind... check and feel... train the senses.
The one thing I would add as a side bar is how long the effects of the wind hang on after it has petered out and where you are in relation to the shoreline shape and the depth and shoaling profile on the coast. I was out in the fall of 2007 checking the marine weather ever half hour all day and we were planning to camp on the Western Islands in Georgian Bay (Lake Huron, Ontario) about 14km off shore. All was duckie until 4:30 pm when the report told us all bets were off and there would now be a storm in the middle of the night with gusts up to 80 kph but it would moderate by early morning. The decision to stay on the island instead of making it a plus 40 km day was made. We figured that we could wait until 2pm the next day to let the waves calm down and we did. I was still windy and waves of 4' to 5' feet but in the Feathercraft K2, we felt secure. It didn't turn out that way. The approaching shore to the east comes up steeply and I am sure the curve of the shoreline funnels the wind too higher speeds. Suffice it to say that we ended up with a 3 hour paddle from hell. We were in up to 10 foot waves, and we had to change track a number of times as we saw that we were approaching areas of breakers where there were shoals a couple of miles off shore. A couple of surprise surfs scared the crap out of me (though my paddle buddy in the stern position was not as freaked because of his perspective.
This long winded tale is just to add that the wind speed is just one factor to be taken in context with topography, fetch, shoaling/depth, wind shadowing of islands points and type of craft. I don't have to worry about tide here, but lots of you folks do, so add that on.
Paddle safe and enjoy... I learned a lesson that day.

Hope this works: http://www.seacanoe.org/Offshore.htm#Deceptive%20but%20'Orrible%20Off-shore%20Winds This is a useful posting about winds, especially offshore winds, by Paul Caffyn, the King of the Circumnavigators.

Steve, thanks for your input. A scary paddle indeed! My mantra is Know the Wind; Respect the wind; FEAR the Wind! As Chuck Sutherland said years ago (and it made a big impression on me), "On open water there is no place to hide from the wind. There is no place to rest." So true!

I got a handheld anemometer and like using it for measuring the wind speed as well as the air and water temperatures. The one thing to remember is that the reading will always be less than what is being recorded at a nearby weather station. While standing on the shore and with the anemometer held in the air it will only be 7 feet above the ground. While seated in the kayak it will only be a few feet above the water. These readings will be less than those placed at the standard height of 10 meters (33 feet). The wind speed is affected by the ground and any obstructions. This is similar to the affect of the shoreline affecting (and slowing) flow along a river.

A reading of 20 MPH at water level may actually equate to a wind of over 25 MPH at the normal height.

But, it is a good tool to be able to compare wind speed relative to other days. And the one I have with the ability to measure both air and water temperature is a handy tool also.

SDK--like Wavehog, you'll have fun getting your paddling mates to estimate the wind speed, then sharing your own anemometer readings with them. I paddle often with a former small-boat sailor and I now and then get him to estimate, usually at the end of a day's trip while we're standing on the shoreline at water's edge, and the wind is up. He'll say "20 knots"; I then show him the anemometer and it's maybe 11 knots. He's getting better.

(Bump)

If the wind is blowing hard enough to make it a chore to carry my kayak to the beach on my shoulder, then I ain't going out. I've had a time, or two when the wind came up during the day when I was out paddling and I at least had to consider an alternate means of getting the boat back to my rig, but the wind always dropped off.

Generally I'm pretty lucky to live where the wind very seldom blows too hard to paddle, except in a storm. I have zero interest in being out in a storm. Anyone who claims to be able to paddle into a 30 knot wind for more than a very short distance is probably wrong about the wind speed.

I'll get an anemometer which I can use on construction site also. Cool to guess and then look at wind speeds.

Went out today 20 mph and gust to 35. Made the shallow bay pretty rough. That was the weather report not my guess. I just knew it was WINDY!

I guess I'm not sure exactly how knowing the precise speed of the wind where you are presently kayaking really matters.

First of all, the direction and fetch and water depth and coastline features and everything else all add up to what "the conditions" are.

Secondly, when you're actually out paddling already, whether you're handling the conditions or not has zero dependence on what you measure the speed to be.

Thirdly, how will your precise measurements from other trips be of use--according to your logic--in predicting whether or not you will paddle a given stretch of water, for as you've noted, any weather forecasts will be for the area in general, and not for the speed right at your kayak. I suppose if you're standing on the beach with an onshore blow, you could measure that and compare to prior experience. But then again, your senses should tell you all you need to know about those current, local conditions.

Illusion, your post suggests that you haven't followed this thread from start to finish. If you go back and check out all of the many entries here, you may find your questions and concerns addressed. And, are we to understand that you are replying to Stormy?