Question: Are kayaks longer than 15-ft inherently more seaworthy than shorter kayaks? If so, why are they more seaworthy?

My answer would be, no. I guess it would also depend on what ones definition of seaworthy is. If the definition includes the ability to cover a lot more water efficiently, then length might be a factor. If we're talking about the ability for the boat to remain upright and handle rough water, I don't think length is the primary factor at all.

My personal preference for a seaworthy craft is longer than 15 feet, but that's just me.

"SEAWORTHY" is a poorly defined term. If someone tells you that a boat is more (or less) seaworthy than another boat ask them to tell you precisely how the boat will behave in rough water and why this is good, or bad. You may find that many people don't seem to quite know what they are talking about.

I don't claim to be an expert but my thoughts on shorter boats:

Lighter....easy to carry up the beach.

Carry less cargo....could be bad on a long trip. you could be tempted to overload them.

You may feel that the waves tend to "knock you around" more. This is just the way I felt the few times I have paddled shorter boats. Each paddler will have to decide for themselves.

"SEAWORTHY" is a poorly defined term. If someone tells you that a boat is more (or less) seaworthy than another boat ask them to tell you precisely how the boat will behave in rough water and why this is good, or bad. You may find that many people don't seem to quite know what they are talking about.

I don't claim to be an expert but my thoughts on shorter boats:

Lighter....easy to carry up the beach.

Carry less cargo....could be bad on a long trip. you could be tempted to overload them.

You may feel that the waves tend to "knock you around" more. This is just the way I felt the few times I have paddled shorter boats. Each paddler will have to decide for themselves.

You can say that again.

I've always been told that the minimum length for open water should be 14'. Has to do something with the distance between waves...I'm compelled to add through my limited open water experience that length does make a difference, as does width and a myrid of other factors.

I have paddled my 14' Kestrel in open water (with a spray skirt). My husband considers me a strong paddler, yet I do have to work harder to keep up with the longer, sleeker boats. Have paddled on lakes in 20mph winds with 30mph gusts with the Kestrel. Although she has never let me down...there are several issues that will keep me from using her for a lot of open water. One of which, although she handles wonderfully in the wind and small waves, tried to ride crest to crest on the small 1 1/2 to 2 ft swells and have not been able to manage it (almost, but not quite) so I spend a lot of time going up and down (fun, but a lot more paddling).

This is one of the reasons I will have a longer boat (at least 16' to 17') before I attempt a lot of open water. There are other factors as well that I have read from previous posts that make a lot of sense and also some safety issues (like an effective roll)...but I feel yes, length makes a difference. As to over 15 ft...I do believe that would depend on the boat and/or the paddler...

Thanks to all for the interesting and considered responses to my question concrning boat length. I have been paddling kayaks for about 10 years, but my experience is largely limited paddling my 11-ft by 26-in Necky Gannet and my 16.75-ft by 24-in Folbot Cooper. (I also have a considerable amount of time in Necky 16-ft Chathams and some time paddling a CD Suka.)

The Cooper defintely has a smoother ride than my Gannet through sets of waves; the Cooper's longer waterline seems to act like a longer wheelbase on a car. If my Gannet rides like a Honda Fit, the Cooper rides like a Caddilac. While I consider the Gannet to have 'bombproof' stability in all kinds of conditions (and I prefer it to my Cooper in really rough and confused water), it does get a little tedious paddling it hour after hour in steep waves as it bobs up and down. However, I also have noticed that the greater length of my Cooper causes it to get really hairy to paddle in high wind and waves in confused seas as one end of the boat is pushed one way and the other end shoved the other way. Sometimes the entire boat is blown off course. Paddling the Cooper can be kind of like driving an old rear-engine VW bus compared to driving a sports car (similar to my Gannet and now my Little Wing, see below)on a windy highway.

Since I am older (63 years), I decided to downsize my day-touring boat for ease of car topping and launching. I recently purchased a Warren Little Wing 12.5-ft by 21.5-in (19.5-in waterline) that weighes just 24-Lbs (I weighed it myself). My concern is that I like to go on guided day tours to interesting places like the Apostle Islands in Lake Superior. While I have no doubt the my Little Wing is better suited to the rocky coastline and the sea caves of the Apostle Islands than my Cooper, the Little Wing techically is not acceptable for the guided tour. I wrote the following to the tour operator, which accurately decribes my experiences with my Little Wing so far (I have had it just over one week).

"I signed up for the Stockton Island intermediate tour on Friday, as well as the Sea Caves tour on Saturday. According to your requirements, my Little Wing is not long enough for Stockton Island trip. I have a 16' 6"-long, 24-in wide, Folbot Cooper that I have paddled for four years, and I can bring that along for the Stockton Island trip if a longer boat is absolutely required. However, I hope that you will consider letting me use my Little Wing kayak on this tour also. I consider my pretty Cooper seaworthy, as I have stiffened the frame (over as designed and delivered by Folbot), and have equipped it with full-length floatation bags in both bow and stern, and also with a seasock. I can paddle it for hours on end at 3.5-4.0 mph and push it to about 5.5 mph. It has so much foatation that re-entries from the water are difficult, but I can reliably push the extreme stern under water and do an over-the-stern scramble re-entry in a matter of minutes.
> My Little Wing kayak, at under 15' length, is techically not acceptable for your intermediate tours, but, with my GPS unit, I measured exact same cruising and top speeds as my Folbot Cooper. My Little Wing has even greater buoyancy than my Cooper. I cannot do an over-the-stern scramble in the Liitle Wing since I cannot force the stern low enough in the water. I was forced to re-learn my paddle float re-entry skills with the Little Wing. After practicing five or six wet exits and re-entries, the bow and stern compartments were bone dry.

To me, my Little Wing is more seaworthy than my Cooper or any other kayak that I have paddled, with the possible exception of the 16' Necky Chatham (which I have borrowed or rented several times), in both its phenomenal primary and secondary stabiilty and in the way that it seems totally unaffected by wind and waves from any direction in confused seas. I consider my Little Wing not only more seaworthy than my much longer Cooper, but the most seaworthy kayak that I have paddled. Even as far as length is concerned, it has a very long waterline length for its size; it just does not have the great overhang at each end like a Greenland style boat. By the way, I like the looks of a Geenland style boat, and one of my favorite boats to paddle is the CD Suka.

I have a more general question about why high-end sea kayaks of less than 15' are not considered suitable for the intermediate tours, yet 'kid's kayaks' of less than 15' may be suitable if they have adequate floatation. Your requirements of 15' or longer for your tours are about the same as what I have seen on the web sites of other tour operators. However, to me the seaworthyness of a kayak depends less on its overall length than on its cruising speed, buoyancy, and stability and manunverability in rough water conditions. I don't want to be argumentative, but I really would like someone to explain to me why 'kid's kayaks' under 15' my be considered appropriate by tour operators, but fully-equipped adult kayaks are not. At 5'3" and 125 Lbs, I am more efficient paddling smaller kayaks. I suppose I could buy a kid's boat like the Perception Carolina 12; it would fit me fine, but at 63 years of age, I might look kind of silly in it. Thanks, and like I say, I can always paddle my Cooper on Stockton Island tour, although I prefer my Little Wing."

Hi Happi,
As you might remember, I had an NC Expedition built for me in December of last year. I have now had it out in a variety of conditions, most significantly, yesterday the wind was really kicking up some very interesting waves. The only thing I can tell you is that I was very happy to be in the Expedition. It made the waves seem smaller than they realy were and I shouldn't admit it, but I didn't even have my skirt on. Not one drop of water even came close to getting into the cockpit and at no time did I feel like the boat was out of control. There was a moment though, when the waves and very strong current caused me to broach a little, but even then the boat was totally stable--even with whitecapped breakers on my beam.

If I were thinking about open water kayaking, there is no other boat that I would put higher on my list than the NC Expedition Lt. By the way, NC has their Spring time sale going; $800 off the regular price.

Ah, the NC Expedition. A tale of two brand-new, high-end, but very different kayaks on Lake Springfield. Just as I was putting my new Little Wing into the water for the first time last weekend, a young guy was putting his new Expedition in the water for her maiden voyage. We were the only two kayakers on the lake, since it was still quite cold, cloudy and windy that day; but with new boats, we just could not resist. I helped him carry his Expedition to the water and steadied his boat while he got in. We paddled together for a few minutes and then he just took off. I never saw him again.

Do you mean to say that the guy in the NC is lost? Sorry about that.

I guess I can't blame the NC guy for wanting to see what the boat would do, but unless he had something pressing to do.... I can't imagine ever blowing another paddler off, unless they are unsociable. Once in a while I meet a paddler who thinks they're too good to even wave at someone who isn't in a Valley, or NDK.

I did not mean to imply that the person with the NC Expedition was rude. I was simply making a whimsical comment on speed of the boat and the paddler. He was young and in excellent condition, and was practicing for an 88-mile race. We exchanged cell phone numbers and will probably get together to paddle in the future. As the owners of probably the two most expensive kayaks on our lake, we recognized each other as somewhat more advanced paddlers.

Unlike along the Northwest Coast, most paddlers around here think that spending more than $1000 for a kayak is pretty extravagant. Most paddlers in my area use their kayaks to 'float' rocky streams as well as paddle in lakes. The majority of the kayaks on Lake Springfield are the low-end rotomolded variety such as sold be Dick's Sporting Goods. Nothing wrong with these boats as some owners eventually move up to more advanced kayaks, as I did.

Hey Magooch,

Some questions about your new boat:
1) Have you had a chance to see how it handles in following seas?

2)The Expedition is a 19' boat, right? Didn't you go to the factory and do a test paddle? Did you try the 17' Quest?

3)I read concerns about the size of the hatch openings. Have you used them yet?

4) Did you get th LT or Std?

Thanks!

Happi, I got the Lt. model and I think it is well worth the extra money. Every time I lift the boat, I am extra glad I went with the Lt.

Yes, I have paddled the Expedition in following seas. I haven't by any means gotten to the point where I feel completely comfortable with my techniques, but the boat is rock steady. I was thinking about some different things to try the next time I go paddling.

NC kayaks are known for their tracking ability. They are designed to handle big water, but that doesn't mean that the paddler is just a passenger. I have had to learn new methods and modify others.

Last spring, I did go up to Tacoma to demo the Expedition (19'-2') and one of the 17'-2" boats. At the time, I was not impressed with the handling. All the same, I was so impressed with the quality and other features of the boats that I figured I could learn to deal with the maneuverability. I have in fact learned to turn the boat, but you have to appreciate that I was used to my Sirocco. The Sirocco is probably one of the easiest handling boats there is, so I was spoiled. The seventeen foot boat is somewhat easier to handle, but I wouldn't trade the Expedition for anything.

I do not use any of my boats for touring (camping). Yes, the hatch openings are a little smaller than those on some kayaks, but I guess if you have anything too big to go through the holes, you might have to carry it on deck. The front and day hatch holes are 5 3/4" and the rear hole is 9 3/4".

As I said, I was spoiled by my Sirocco and I still love that boat, but an NC will also spoil you, but in a different way. The stability, tracking and effortless speed will make it hard to want to be in any other boat. The quality of these boats is simply something that has to be seen.

Mariner Coaster.

End of argument.

My kayak, a kevlar Solstice Titan, was carefully chosen over a west coast rockered hull for use as a wildlife observation platform. So said as without prior experience, available information came to this conclusion.
So far so good. But I do not explore sea caves or go rock hopping. The route is usually with the tide. When wave sets arrive or I arrive parallel, I turn into and go over at better than 45 degrees.
At this cowardly level of padling, the Solstice takes care of me on Haro Strait, over the bar and thru the rip during small craft warning or rough seas. Take a close look at the Solstice's complex hull shape.
Generalizing, beginning paddlers I speak with at Smallpox Bay paddling short cheaper hulls are far more tentative in discussion than paddlers with longer hulls. Regulars with short hulls are more tentative. Impression is shorter sea kayak hulls do not go as far as longer hulls. The ace of manuverability over the Great Lakes straight hull is lost on the beginner.