I think it would be exceptionally bad form to walk up to someone preparing to go paddling and presume to tell them how ill prepared they are. What happened to mind you own damn business?

Supposedly, we live in a free country and to me, that means free to do stupid things as well as what might comport to what some self-authorized busy-body thinks. If you feel compelled to inject yourself into others business, do it with great caution and tact.

I have been questioned about the wisdom of being out in what some people call rough water in my sea kayaks by people who have never so much as paddled a canoe. I usually take it with good nature and assure them that the boat can handle it. What I will not tolerate is a fellow paddler judging me. They can judge all they want, but I don't want to hear it.

I will agree that we must constantly battle the element that seems to be able to rationalize anything and want to regulate, license and require structured training for virtually everything. Those are the types who need to be questioned and repudiated.

We inject ourselves into others business all the time. Perhaps if more people who "didn't want to get involved" got involved many things would be different. But since this conversation pertains to kayaking, would you watch someone prepare to launch wearing a t-shirt into water that was 50 degrees without pointing out that the water is really cold? I'm not saying that you should monster them and hogtie them on the beach for failing to comply, but peer pressure is a powerful thing and frequently comments about foolish behavior are enough.

You also say that you can't tolerate other paddlers judging you and voicing it. why is that? I dismiss the uneducated comments of the non-paddling public but am willing to think about the comments by other paddlers...if they make sense.

Insisting on appropriate skills is hardly a call for regulation. we insist that people driving cars be licensed, people who design/build our houses be trained and licensed and our doctors to be rigorously trained and licensed. Like Strange Magic stated, the numbers of climbers is kept low due to the apparent risk and difficulty, but paddling looks easy and on a nice calm lake it is. But how many people get into trouble by thinking they are competent, even in flat water? Learning a paddle float rescue or assisted rescue can make the difference, especially wearing that wetsuit.

Every year I read about more and more incidents on my home waters (Puget Sound). People going paddling wearing ski equipment, no skirt and getting hauled out of the water by a ferry. Inebriated knuckleheads trying to cross open water...at night, rescued. Paddler on Lake Washington drowned, no PFD or immersion protection. These are just a few incidents right off the top of my head. If you don't think the Man is coming, think again.

The typical counter to this is to make everyone pay for being rescued. If you go back to my previous post and read about the lost child in the the forest, how do you go back and charge the parents for the unsuccessful search effort? Do you run a credit report on the person injured on Mt Hood before sending a chopper? No. The bodies that effect these rescues are the CG, the National park Service, the Sheriffs Department, fire departments and truckloads of volunteers. While these governmental bodies are frequently lacking funds is the way to fix that to let people twist until they show their plastic? What about insurance? That's worked great for peoples medical needs, file a claim for a cancer diagnosis and next thing you know you've been denied for not mentioning that your mom broke her leg when she was 5.

Education is the cheapest solution. After all, if you've got the green to participate in this sport you've got the money to take a few classes. It's not required yet, but it's coming, especially with the SUP folks. They'll be lumped in with us and I've rarely seen them wear a PFD let alone immersion wear.

On a final note, I'm not so sure I'd object to a safe kayakers card. A boaters license is required to operate a power boat in this state, perhaps a similar requirement for kayaks isn't out of bounds. At least then I would her less of "Those ferries and ships have to get out of my way, I have the right of way!" I've heard it and I'm sure you have too.

Magooch, where are you these days on wearing the sprayskirt/PFD/wetsuit? Are you with the program full-time now?

Mark, I don't have a problem with very tactful questions when an obvious novice is about to do something that I probably wouldn't do. But if their attitude is that they don't seem to want any friendly advice--I'm done. Maybe that's just me being from the old school where we were free to do pretty much as we pleased as long as it didn't cause anyone else a problem.

Now I know you're going to bring up the rescue folks, etc. Carry that just a step too far and your freedoms are gone. My observation with allowing government to whittle away at freedom is that it will everytime it gets a chance. Even the thought of having to attain a license, or certificate to paddle a kayak, canoe, or anything is simply abhorrent to me. I'll probably shock you, but I think having to get a permit, or license to operate a power boat stinks too. None of this kind of crap was even considered when people really valued freedom.

I served this country to try to conserve our freedom and it makes me sick to see people so willing to give it up for a little false security.

Strang_Magic, I very seldom wear my skirt, but I always have it with me in my sea kayaks. I hardly ever even take it along in my rec. kayaks. I always wear my pfd when I'm in a sea kayak, but depending on where I'm paddling in a recreation kayak, I might and might not wear a pfd--it will be in the boat, though.

I wear my wetsuit when I feel it is necessary. I don't consider anything about paddling to be a program and I for sure am not programmed.

I'm well aware that those who consider themselves to be the elite will think I'm foolish. I also realize that there are those who believe anyone who climbs into one of those skinny, tippy little boats is nuts. I couldn't care less.

Magooch, you've failed. You thought you could shock me with your nutcase theory that powerboaters shouldn't be licensed or permitted, but I've come to rely on your foolishness. Why annoy doctors by thinking they should be licensed? Inspecting food takes away our precious freedoms, and I know that you fought and bled so that we could have child labor again.

That said, you really ought to consider whether you're best serving sea kayaking by your ill-preparedness on the water. By not setting an example for others of what the intelligent, serious, knowledgable, educated sea kayaker wears while upon open water, you're actually inviting the authorities to come on in and make you jump through hoops. And what is it that those obvious novices are doing that you "probably" wouldn't do? You are helping destroy your own freedom.

Why not start repairing the damage by maybe joining a club and seeing how serious sea kayakers conduct themselves?

Strange_Magic,
I guess you haven't heard there's a differnce between scratching your butt and tearing a hole in it. Just because I don't believe a license is necessary to drive a power boat, it doesn't mean I believe all the other crap you wrote.

Unlike some, I don't presume to set myself up as an authority on sensible kayaking. Your insults don't do much for my respect for your judgement in advising anyone on any matter. If that is any example of what to expect from a club--no thanks.

"I can, however, conquer my fears, my hesitations, my irrationally held beliefs, my poor self-identity, my self-imposed limits on my physicality"

Very well said, Doug. Conquest is a very good term for overcoming personal weaknesses or failings. My comments with respect to the "conquest" of things like mountains, rivers, etc. were made with the intent of deriding those hubris-laden folks who approach the great outdoors with disrespect; in other words, a "lack of respect" for the power inherent in natural systems. To me, "conquest" exemplifies that attitude. There's a lot to be said in favor of seeking out challenges; they are, however, best approached with humility and enough margin for error to keep us alive if conditions don't turn out as we planned.

With respect to offering unsolicited safety advice:

What it seems to come down to at the end of the day, is whether, in good conscience, one can live with the decision to remain mute when someone is paddling towards something as innocuous-looking and potentially lethal as a low-head dam, or getting ready to paddle unprotected on cold water. Approximately 90% of all sea kayaking fatalities result when paddlers who are dressed for a day hike, rather than a swim, unexpectedly capsize in cold water. “Sea kayaking” in this instance, also refers to inland flatwater paddling. It would certainly make my life a whole lot easier if I could just shrug my shoulders and say something like "Ah, screw it, sink or swim; I don't need the aggravation. C'mon mates, lets just go paddle, have some fun, and forget about it." For one reason or another, I've never been able to do that.

Let's try and keep the discourse civil, mates.

One thing we all share on this forum is a love of being out on the water in our marvelous little boats. Perhaps on some things we should step back a little bit and agree to disagree. Issues aren't always black and white; more often than not, life is filled with shades of grey.

Magooch, I appreciate your service to our country, and I would oppose any law mandating that you wear a PFD, or a wetsuit / drysuit when paddling on cold water. I support your freedom to forgo well-known safety guidelines, but I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to question your judgement should you decide to forgo them. Freedom / Judgement.

There are occasions where no regulation or minimum regulation is really desirable, and other occasions(Wall Street, for example) where lack of oversight and loose regulations resulted in a world-wide recession that has harmed billions of people. I've seen enough rapacity on the part of the big boys over the years to want a little regulation to protect my freedom. For example, I would gladly support a regulation prohibiting drug testing in employment situations, school sports programs etc - something I consider to be an egregious blow to personal privacy and freedom. Trust me, no CEO has ever pissed in a little bottle while someone watched in the bathroom...

Civility is always a good thing, as is keeping good natured as that way consensus or agreement to disagree is a little easier to achive, especially where what is exchanged on the internet stays put in perpetuity.

I tend to hold back and choose my fights when I see other paddlers approaching their outing in a way I see as less than desirable from a safety point of view. In fact, I'm more of a busy body when it comes to advocating good behaviour and more to the point, reinforcing good practices when I see them, even with someone I don't know. I saw a guy the other day with flares mounted in his cockpit, "Good place to keep them sir, guess you never forget them that way."

If I see something really off, I may say something. I think Chris covered this off in an editiorial sometime ago, as it sparked a discussion on some other chat lines that got just as heated.

I remember pointing out an article I'd done on an couple who died near Pond Inlet. Another couple who had passed the group learned later about the fate of the deceased paddlers who enountered stiff off-shore winds further down the coast. They had really wished they'd taken the time to talk to these other paddlers that they has passed earlier. Regrets.

I'd say my biggest "in-your-face" comment is seeing paddlers jump out in blue jeans after a choppy crossing. I don't see that too often anymore, but I can't bite my lip on that one.

I rebuke myself for stepping over my own line and allowing my ongoing irritation at my old sparring partner Magooch to degrade my usually more civil approach to kayaking issues. Won't happen again. Magooch is my Moby Dick--he heaps me; he tasks me. I don't want to end up like Ahab.

That said, I join with Mark, Doug and Moulton in suggesting that greater club participation, and thus passing on what we know, is one way that knowledgeable sea kayakers can improve the odds that we won't end up on the wrong end of future attempts to regulate open water paddling. As sales of sea kayaks increase without a simultaneous increase in knowledge of seamanship and sea kayaking "best practices", there will be increasing "accidents", rescues, etc., and things could get grim.

I tend to think paddling clubs go a long way to getting us where we should be. One of the clubs here in Victoria not only facilitates the mentoring of new paddlers but also has become somewhat of an official voice in the community for paddling advocacy issues. I used to be a lot more involved with clubs but one gets to the point where sometimes you move on for various reasons. Certainly there is always a new crop of paddlers up and coming with further new seasoned paddlers willing to volunteer to run programs and trips, etc.

One also wonders if some of these folks we read about in the papers who get into trouble who are somewhat experienced would have fared better with a little exposure to a club environment whereby they would have rubbed shoulders with those able to perhaps give them a keener sense of kayak seamanship and appropriate immersion ethic, etc.

That “etc.” by the way involves so much more than just fostering safe kayaking (with its attendant benefits for other paddlers too, now and in the future). Low impact camping, appropriate behaviour accessing launching sites, orderly compliance with navigational and harbour rules, goodwill volunteerism with other waterborne activities (swimming race marshalling, accompaniment, etc.), and a whole host of other beneficial attribution. No, one doesn’t have to be part of a club necessarily, but there does seem to be some correlation.

I do understand some of the concerns expressed by Magooch and I’m pretty sure the club environment might not be his (or someone else’s) cup of tea. A trip leader may just be telling you to put on that skirt and PFD. They probably wouldn’t be saying that from an elitist mentality though. More likely because it is just plain common sense in most cases and there are also liability issues. One wishes it weren’t so. Freedoms do tend to erode as society sophisticates but once pitted, maintenance is the only option.

I took a Power Squadron course a few years ago, not so much to learn seamanship but rather to understand some of the issues facing the operators of motorized, small pleasure craft. I’m very glad I did (and I did learn a few new knots too, um, the kind done with cordage, though throttling up a big diesel to get a few more knots in was fun too). Obviously boaters can’t just buy a vessel and head off as easily as they once used to in Canada, but neither do we see as many vessels blowing up at the gas dock due to venting ignorance.

I for one see good potential for the promotion of safe paddling. Sure, retail stores not only gain add-on sales after selling a boat with additional courses and safety gear, but they often do so much more. MEC in town here (and elsewhere) host paddlefest activities that surly add to the cumulative experience of safer paddling. I think everyone is trying.

And yes, if paddlers posting to forums feel strongly about foundational seamanship and best practice modernity for example, then that is a noble and worthwhile message to promote. To do so in a manner that allows a conversation to continue has to be a better experience than being a zealot and getting shut out or shut down. I have to remind myself of that from time to time.

Me using less words can also help sometimes too. :-)

Doug
Victoria BC

I've said as much before, but I think it bears repeating: Like it or not, those of us with more experience serve as role models, particularly for those paddlers who are new to the sport. The vast majority of less experienced paddlers seek to emulate the behavior that we "model" every time we put a paddle into water.

If Nigel Dennis only wore his PFD when he deemed conditions warranted it for his own personal level of expertise, you can rest assured that many far less experienced paddlers, particularly his students, would be found sans PFD in conditions that warranted wearing one. It's perfectly natural to want to BE a very accomplished paddler, and folks who don't yet have the skill can (and do) dress the part. What they chose to wear, or not, is largely a function of the culture that they encounter when they enter into the sport. If they happen upon a very safety conscious bunch of mates, they embrace safety. If they encounter a far more laissez faire, each-to-his-own atmosphere, that becomes their frame of reference. It's a simple calculus learned and endlessly reinforced in school: If you want to be thought of as "cool" and don't want people to mistake you for a dork, or worse, it's a wise move to emulate whatever passes for cool. It's the rare individual who has the will to go against that vein.

I don't see this as a regulatory or personal freedom issue. From my perspective, it's primarily about individual responsibility and the desire to act in a manner that promotes and foster greater safety within our sport. That's why I always wear my PFD, and have a No-Exceptions policy about dressing for the water temperature.