The most recent in a very long line of kayaks is a Perception Essence 16.5. It follows a Chatham 17 and a poly Avocet. I wouldn't have seriously considered the Essence based on specifications, but my local dealer had one so I tried it. It fits like a glove, and so far, I'm extremely pleased. I've only had her since 2008 and I never judge too quickly

Sock Puppet on behalf of a friend searching for his first full on seakayak, I'd be much obliged if you'd compare the Essence to the Avocet.

Currently in the mix are a very lightly used fglass Avocet, private party sale, a used Essence on consignment, good condition, and a minty Essence last one on the floor (never wet) at a local paddle shop. All are affordable and yes the Avocet will be the highest priced as it is composite, but the price for condition and extras on the Avocet (skirt, compass, cockpit cover, upgraded backband) is very appealing. Neither Essence comes w. any extras.

My friend is an excellent outdoorsman (skier, cyclist, ice skater, climber) and has paddled canoes and rec boats for a number of years. He's a lean 175 lbs, 6'0. He wants a longer boat for better performance, better speed (he has the engine) mainly for daytouring with the option to carry gear for 3-4 nights. He packs like a backpacker so having a big tripper is not a necessity.

I'm also encouraging him to consider a gorgeous used CD Caribou but that is my bias as I have a Suka '-)


thanks much

If you're looking for the best of the best at the best price, take a look www.nckayaks.com.

Lord love ya magooch, how many times have you posted that link.

No, they are not "the best of the best"... to you maybe -and that's great!

Other people have their own ideas about what is "best" and what are the "best" kayaks for their intended purpose(s).

In this case, a person is doing his own demo'ing and buying locally, in Michigan, where the used seakayak market is plentiful and deep. Wise move IMO.

I recently bought a DAG Miwok because it was all I could afford. It's a plastic boat but seems quite capable (compared to my old Geoff Barker estuary kayak which I would not take out into open ocean) except that the rudder pedals seem uncomfortable and flimsy and are mounted to the side of the hull, which being plastic does not feel rigid enough. The hatches aslo are not very water tight using a neoprene cover with loose fitting plastic covers and straps to hold them down. I think the design is good, paddles and tracks well but probably a little flimsy around the rudder pedal/hatch areas. It's very popular with tour guides because it's generally robust, easy to paddle and cheap. My first choice would have been a locally made Pittarak composite kayak.

When I offer my opinion about NC Kayaks I'm well aware that there will be different opinions, but I feel like I would be remiss if I failed to at least bring these super boats to the attention of those who are looking. They don't advertise a lot and depend almost exclusively on word-of-mouth.

I certainly don't have a problem with other people's opinions and in fact I appreciate them. I wish someone had told me about these boats when I first got into kayaking. I do realize though that it generally takes a while before a new paddler can evaluate all the traits of a given boat. I would even say that a very experienced kayaker would need a good deal of time in a boat to properly assess it. From my own experience, my first impression of the NCs--other than their remarkable good looks was that the handling was more difficult than I expected and I even questioned their speed. I was wrong on both counts. I will give this warning: If you are one who has multiple boats, an NC will cause your other boats to spend a lot of time collecting dust.

One of the reasons I offer the link is because they have sales from time to time and the only way you can find out about it is to go to their website. I do it with the best of intentions; only because I know that for anyone looking for a great boat at a great price, it would be at least worth a look. I have no financial interest in Novus Composites whatsoever. All I can say is that they are an all American company and deserve our business.

you seem a great guy, take this as meant

My friend was looking at USED kayaks in MICHIGAN.

If he wanted/could afford a new boat, we have MANY fine dealers & paddleshops out here carrying over a dozen or more fine lines in seakayaks alone - American, British, Canadian, Finnish and even Estonian (Tahe).

As to American kayaks - I have two, plus a Brit boat bought used from an American in S.F... so in that respect 2/3rd of me is, I guess, a redmeat patriot. Course my Brit boat was bought used, for $1200, from an American in S.F. with a dayboat design that was very close to a decade ahead of VCP, NDK & P&H...but I told my friend to get the boat that best suited his body, his uses, & his wallet...not to worry about its passport.

Gee, in this economy there are even sales and discounts where you can SEE the boat, TRY it out, and TAKE it home...

As it turns out-

my friend got an excellent well cared for used 2004 17' Valley Skerray RMX (that's the rotomould version) for a very affordable price - under $700. Valley's plastic stands among the best of the best (Prijon, P&H)

If that had fallen thru there were a couple very nice rotomoulded Chatham 16 and Perception Essences 17 for slightly more.

w. that kind of reference point & budget my friend wasn't gonna go for a NEW boat, not a plastic one, much less a new glass boat... Jaysus man....what did your suggestion have to do w. anything...do you get referral $$ LMAO

No Katabalic, as I stated, the only connection I have to Novus Composits is that I own one of their boats. And I will happily continue to suggest to those who are interested that they at least take a look at these great boats.

I'm glad your friend found a boat that satisfies his desire.

At the risk of starting an argument, I would opine that Valley's roto-molds are no better, nor worse than any of the other polyethylene boats that come from the better known manufacturers. Don't take that to mean that I have anything against poly boats. I have two and I love both of them.

Again, I do not mean to be overly critical of Valley's poly boats, but what is it about the plastic they use that makes them any better than any other builder. One of the tests I use to evaluate a design and the material used is to place the boat on the floor and very slowly lift the boat from the stern while observing the the deck and hull. On all of the Valley boats I have tested, the hull and deck very clearly bend when lifted in this manner.

I showed this to a very prominent Valley dealer and his reaction was, "well, ya get what ya pay for." He also mentioned to me that they had a real problem with those same boats and some others during a very hot period last summer. The boats they had stored in racks wilted like wet noodles. Neither one of my poly boats had any problem at all during that same heat wave.

My intention is not to get into a peeing match over this, but I do think that potential buyers should do some real testing on any boat they might be interested in and not just take for granted that a brand name (not just Valley) is an automatic guarantee of anything. Rigidity to me is an important element and is one thing that will get a boat crossed off my list. But that's just me.

Okay Katabalic, I reread you last post and I concur that your friend certainly did the prudent thing. I hurried through your post and focused on only a couple of things.

I really didn't mean to be overly critical of Valley's plastic boats, but I do think that the test I described is valid for any boat of interest. To tell you the truth, I haven't found any longer poly sea kayak that doesn't flex a little. It's just that I was surprised at how much the Valley boats flex.

I also didn't mean to say that being American made should necessarily give any boat preference over boats made in other countries. However, when a realy great boat is built in this country I can't help giving it some extra points. In the case of Novus Composite, they don't need any bonus points to compete with any manufacturer no matter where it is.

Before buying my Expedition, I looked at, demoed, or at least sat in as many sea kayaks as I could find and I spent more than two years in the process. As it turned out, I was able to winnow down the choices to a very small handful. None of the boats I saw, tried, or sat in was perfect and that included the NC. Price was not a high priority, because--well because I have been very fortunate, but that's not the point. I wanted what for me was the best I could find.

In the end, I decided to overlook what I thought might be a couple of weak points on the NC--namely maneuverability and speed issues. I thought I was being objective at the time and that the build quality and ravishing looks of the boat made up for handling. I couldn't have been more wrong. The handling and speed of the boat are more than a match for any other strong asset. I guess this is just me rambling, but I wish that all paddlers could find the boat that satisfies them as much as I have.

Happy paddling.

professionally i use fg7m double rosco's(can be a bit tippy if i have larger clients),also use double perception swings ep (don't start me on how much of a wind trap these very basic craft are,that allmost being said they are good for begginers or nervous nellies who fear a cockpit kayak),personally i recentally purchased a 4.6m seabird tourer ep i find it great for overnite or extended tours to coral islands or coral cays(pretty robust in it can take medium level missue)(i.e coral beach landings),also a 4.5m geoff barker tourer fg mainly used for training and speed work-outs(it is great for rolling practice, considering it's over 10 years old it's a great little craft),also have a dagger blast which only comes out to play when there is a cyclone close enough to our coast to produce swell over 3-4 metres with 30-40 knot winds {flamin great barrier reef stops all the good swell)(allways have a smile on the dial when in the dagger),also have a varity of wind-surfer boards used for stand-u p paddling,putting crab pots out,or skurfing behind boats...

I paddle a 20yr old Norski Puysegur (made in Blenheim New Zealand, they no longer make sea kayaks so it's a rare breed now)She's British greenland style fibreglass boat, hard chined with a deep v hull, no skeg no rudder ( the way a sea kayak should be . I love it! There aren't many boats like this found in NZ we are a nation of paddlers that love rudders!

Hard chines, soft chines, rudders, skegs--whatever works and it's very good to hear from you New Zealanders.

I have activated the "allow images" option in this forum. If you go to the FAQ section of this forum there is a good set of directions. I tried to post them here but the code behaved as code and turned invisible in the post.

I did find that each picture has to have a unique URL or you will see a link rather than the photo in your post.

Looking forward to seeing some great boat photos
Michael

The three:
Necky Chatham 18
Feathercraft Whisper
Sterling Ice Cap (the fiancée’s but she lets me take it out on occasion)

Hello all! New to the Forums...

I just picked up a brand new P&H Scorpio LV.... loving it!


Ivan
8^)