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#3265 - 11/28/10 01:51 PM Anyone use a SPOT? Flare questions.
DogPaddle52 Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 08/30/10
Posts: 398
Loc: Long Island NY
http://www.findmespot.com/en/

Are these decent as a backup to my VHF? After having my VHF leak I am thinking backup. I have two VHF radios now but they are bulky. I would rather just use one VHF.

The spot is smaller than my Standard Horizon 850 VHF

Height:
3" (7.6 cm)
Width:
2.6" (6.6 cm)
Thickness:
1.25" (3.2 cm)
Weight:
3.7 oz (104.9 g)

Operating Temp:
-22F to +140F
(-30C to 60C)
Operating Altitude:
-328ft to +21,325 ft
(-100m to +6,500m)
Humidity and Salt Fog Rated
Shock:
1 meter (3.3 ft)
2 times on all 6 axes
Vibration Rated:
MIL-STD-810F,
Method 514.5
(0,04g2/Hz, 20-200Hz)
Waterproof:
IPX-7

Trying to decide on flares. I see parachute flares are $700+ for 12. I was reading a review of Orion flares. They don't stay up long, hard to fire, hard to fire from wet are they that valuable. Am I better with smoke flares, SOS flag, and two electronic devices. I will be inshore for the winter in marshes with no large crossings. Trying to prepare for summer when I may go farther in Long Island Sound or end of Long Island or Ocean with more water training. I don't mind a flare gun in my boat. What to carry in PDF?

I did a search and read some of the other threads on flares. How many have actually used them or tried them. I guess it is hard to practice with them and not cause alarm.

I have been doing a bunch of reading like one book that tells of accidents and fatalities in kayaks.

Thanks


Edited by DogPaddle52 (11/28/10 01:57 PM)
_________________________
Long Island NY
'08 CD Solstice GT
'03 CD Extreme
'10 Ocean Trident Prowler
'10 Hobie Quest.

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#3266 - 11/28/10 04:37 PM Re: Anyone use a SPOT? Flare questions. [Re: DogPaddle52]
Strange_Magic Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 459
Loc: New Jersey
Don't know about the Spot. I personally don't carry flares, and I don't know anybody who does, paddling local waters prudently. Alaska, etc. would be another story. Keeping your cell phone dry, and carrying a good VHF probably are a much surer bet than flares on local water.

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#3267 - 11/29/10 08:44 PM Re: Anyone use a SPOT? Flare questions. [Re: Strange_Magic]
Nhk750 Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 25
Loc: Seattle, WA
I carry in my PFD pocket, 3 flares. I use the Orion Skyblazer II red aerial flares. They work great! They are handheld and about the size of a roll of quarters (maybe a little bit bigger) I have tested them and they shoot about 150 yards and have a good amount of hang time, they are waterproof and fire when wet. Because they are so small and handheld you can carry them in your pfd pocket with no worries. They cost around $35.00 for 4 flares.

Here is a link. http://www.amazon.com/Orion-SkyBlazer-Aerial-Signal-4-pack/dp/B000QGKIZU

I always carry flares, they attract a lot of attention if you need it and if you get separated from your boat, you can launch these babies for help. No brainier here, carry flares if you are out there. I also think it is a US coast guard requirment...


Edited by Nhk750 (11/29/10 08:56 PM)

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#3270 - 11/30/10 09:30 AM Re: Anyone use a SPOT? Flare questions. [Re: Nhk750]
mikekayak Offline

Forum Participant

Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 324
Loc: Seattle, WA
Another signal item we've started carrying in our lifejacket is a laser flare. It is waterproof to 80 feet and visible as a line of light for up to miles with optimal conditions mile away. The run time on the small one we carry is 40 hours continuous use. We did a product review in the August 2002 issue of Sea Kayaker and found they performed as advertised. They are a nice addition to your aerial flares, VHF, and SPOT. Back in my marine retail days we called those alert devices while smoke, a hand held flare or the laser flare would be the locate portion of the formula. It's important to be found once you've let someone know you are in trouble.

We once set out into the night after seeing flares go off in the distance. With nothing being used as a location signal we ended up searching for quite a while before locating the vessel in distress. Had the emergency been more severe the lost time could have been important, as it was we just had to tow the boat back to our anchorage and assist in some engine repair.
_________________________
Michael Collins
Sea Kayaker Magazine
michael@seakayakermag.com

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#3274 - 11/30/10 03:52 PM Re: Anyone use a SPOT? Flare questions. [Re: mikekayak]
DogPaddle52 Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 08/30/10
Posts: 398
Loc: Long Island NY
_________________________
Long Island NY
'08 CD Solstice GT
'03 CD Extreme
'10 Ocean Trident Prowler
'10 Hobie Quest.

Top
#3284 - 12/06/10 06:38 PM Re: Anyone use a SPOT? Flare questions. [Re: DogPaddle52]
mattseakayaker Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 12/06/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
I've been using the SPOT for two years now. It actually seems to be fairly reliable. Mine is very waterproof, and the batteries last forever.

The “spot messenger service” is really fun. Your friends can watch your progress on the SPOT website. Careful though…I had a friend call the coast guard when I camped overnight on an island that does not appear on Google Maps. To them, it appeared that I paddled straight into the ocean and just disappeared!

I saw a coast guard demonstration of flares last year. It was a sunny afternoon. They were all very disappointing, especially the skyblazer flares. There was no missing the orange smoke though, that was very visible in the daylight.


Edited by mattseakayaker (12/06/10 09:30 PM)

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#3287 - 12/07/10 12:06 AM Re: Anyone use a SPOT? Flare questions. [Re: mattseakayaker]
DogPaddle52 Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 08/30/10
Posts: 398
Loc: Long Island NY
how much is the tracking service for spot?
_________________________
Long Island NY
'08 CD Solstice GT
'03 CD Extreme
'10 Ocean Trident Prowler
'10 Hobie Quest.

Top
#3303 - 12/07/10 05:28 PM Re: Anyone use a SPOT? Flare questions. [Re: DogPaddle52]
mattseakayaker Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 12/06/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
I paid $150 for a year of the tracking feature. I think you can pay a lesser amount if you just want the "911 send help" features.

It is really fun to have my friends and family follow me on my expeditions. They click on a link, and there is an arrow on google maps that shows where I am. I can also log in (when I get home)and see my route.

I've never met anyone who has ever pressed the "911" or the "send help" buttons. I suspect it would work if you were on shore with a clear view of the sky. I would not count on it working in really rough water because the antenna would be pointing all over the place and not really facing a satelite.

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#3389 - 01/05/11 12:42 PM Re: Anyone use a SPOT? Flare questions. [Re: mikekayak]
WanderingHorizon Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 01/05/11
Posts: 19
Loc: Fl
Originally Posted By: mikekayak
Another signal item we've started carrying in our lifejacket is a laser flare. It is waterproof to 80 feet and visible as a line of light for up to miles with optimal conditions mile away. The run time on the small one we carry is 40 hours continuous use. We did a product review in the August 2002 issue of Sea Kayaker and found they performed as advertised. They are a nice addition to your aerial flares, VHF, and SPOT. Back in my marine retail days we called those alert devices while smoke, a hand held flare or the laser flare would be the locate portion of the formula. It's important to be found once you've let someone know you are in trouble.

We once set out into the night after seeing flares go off in the distance. With nothing being used as a location signal we ended up searching for quite a while before locating the vessel in distress. Had the emergency been more severe the lost time could have been important, as it was we just had to tow the boat back to our anchorage and assist in some engine repair.


This is something you have to be careful with using here in the states. Be sure you don't point them into the sky. As silly as it sounds those laser pointers can blind airline pilots and it also a sign that a Surface to air missile is attempting to lock on to them.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/12/09/national/main7134063.shtml

http://www.kens5.com/news/Laser-pointers-blind-pilots-FAA-warns-111849684.html
_________________________
ACA Level 4 Kayak Instructor
Wilderness Systems Tempest 170

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#3394 - 01/06/11 09:11 AM Re: Anyone use a SPOT? Flare questions. [Re: WanderingHorizon]
mikekayak Offline

Forum Participant

Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 324
Loc: Seattle, WA
The laser flare is different than a laser pointer and is used by several organizations, including the military, as a means of signaling aircraft. The following comes from Greatland Laser's website FAQ section.

6. Won't they stun the pilot/captain whose attention I'm trying to get?

No. When the fan of light crosses your target's vision it will appear as a brilliant flash in the distance and will in no way impair their night vision.

Comparison of cockpit illumination power densities of Rescue Laser Flare®
emergency signaling device vs. typical laser pointer

Let’s compare the amount of laser light power which illuminates an aircraft cockpit from the Rescue Laser to that of a typical laser pointer, at a common signaling distance of 1.5 miles. The laser power level illuminating the cockpit and hitting the pilot’s eye from the Rescue Laser is about one trillionth of a watt. This power level is very low because the Rescue Laser begins with a very small amount of laser light and then creates a very long 2 dimensional fan (line) of light further reducing the power density of the light. This level can be easily detected, but will not obscure pilot vision in any way.

However, because the light from the laser pointer remains in a relatively small one-dimensional pencil thin beam, the laser beam spot size at the aircraft is about 240CM (8 ft) in diameter. Because all of this light is concentrated in a relatively small spot, rather than spread out in a long line like the Rescue Laser, the power density impinging on the pilot’s eye is about 1,000 times greater from the laser pointer, at this distance.

Therefore, although the signaling capability of the Rescue Laser emergency rescue and signaling device remains effective for signaling SAR aircraft, the power levels (brightness) of the Rescue Laser is reduced by one thousand times, this is a level where visual flight acuity is not affected.

It should be noted that even the laser pointer’s output although bright, is still about ten thousand times lower than the power level where eye injury can occur, at this distance.

A bit more from the military side Not part of the FAQ
The US Navy reported in a 2003 Aviation Survival Gear Field Test that "this signal laser is perhaps one of the best night signals invented." The Rescue Laser Light has been a popular addition to survival kits used by U.S. Army and Air Force personnel deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Joint Personnel Recovery Agency (JPRA) successfully tested Greatland Laser’s signaling devices in 2006. Results from a test of the Green Rescue Laser Flare® with the 12th Aviation Battalion at Fort A.P. Hill, Virginia found "an individual on the ground was able to successfully signal an aircraft flying at 2,000 feet out of five nautical miles during daylight to dusk condition." During Desert Rescue, the Green Rescue Laser Flare® was used to signal the rescue helicopter flying at approximately 50 – 200 feet out at two nautical miles in midday and full sun. The aircrew stated they were able to quickly pick up the bright flashes from the laser and vector in on the survivor.


Edited by mikekayak (01/06/11 09:22 AM)
Edit Reason: added a bit more info
_________________________
Michael Collins
Sea Kayaker Magazine
michael@seakayakermag.com

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#3396 - 01/06/11 10:09 AM Re: Anyone use a SPOT? Flare questions. [Re: mikekayak]
WanderingHorizon Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 01/05/11
Posts: 19
Loc: Fl
Originally Posted By: mikekayak
The laser flare is different than a laser pointer and is used by several organizations, including the military, as a means of signaling aircraft. The following comes from Greatland Laser's website FAQ section.

6. Won't they stun the pilot/captain whose attention I'm trying to get?

No. When the fan of light crosses your target's vision it will appear as a brilliant flash in the distance and will in no way impair their night vision.

Comparison of cockpit illumination power densities of Rescue Laser Flare®
emergency signaling device vs. typical laser pointer

Let’s compare the amount of laser light power which illuminates an aircraft cockpit from the Rescue Laser to that of a typical laser pointer, at a common signaling distance of 1.5 miles. The laser power level illuminating the cockpit and hitting the pilot’s eye from the Rescue Laser is about one trillionth of a watt. This power level is very low because the Rescue Laser begins with a very small amount of laser light and then creates a very long 2 dimensional fan (line) of light further reducing the power density of the light. This level can be easily detected, but will not obscure pilot vision in any way.

However, because the light from the laser pointer remains in a relatively small one-dimensional pencil thin beam, the laser beam spot size at the aircraft is about 240CM (8 ft) in diameter. Because all of this light is concentrated in a relatively small spot, rather than spread out in a long line like the Rescue Laser, the power density impinging on the pilot’s eye is about 1,000 times greater from the laser pointer, at this distance.

Therefore, although the signaling capability of the Rescue Laser emergency rescue and signaling device remains effective for signaling SAR aircraft, the power levels (brightness) of the Rescue Laser is reduced by one thousand times, this is a level where visual flight acuity is not affected.

It should be noted that even the laser pointer’s output although bright, is still about ten thousand times lower than the power level where eye injury can occur, at this distance.

A bit more from the military side Not part of the FAQ
The US Navy reported in a 2003 Aviation Survival Gear Field Test that "this signal laser is perhaps one of the best night signals invented." The Rescue Laser Light has been a popular addition to survival kits used by U.S. Army and Air Force personnel deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Joint Personnel Recovery Agency (JPRA) successfully tested Greatland Laser’s signaling devices in 2006. Results from a test of the Green Rescue Laser Flare® with the 12th Aviation Battalion at Fort A.P. Hill, Virginia found "an individual on the ground was able to successfully signal an aircraft flying at 2,000 feet out of five nautical miles during daylight to dusk condition." During Desert Rescue, the Green Rescue Laser Flare® was used to signal the rescue helicopter flying at approximately 50 – 200 feet out at two nautical miles in midday and full sun. The aircrew stated they were able to quickly pick up the bright flashes from the laser and vector in on the survivor.


Got ya

I read the post wrong I thought he meant using a laser pointer to signal boats not a laser flare.

My mistake.
_________________________
ACA Level 4 Kayak Instructor
Wilderness Systems Tempest 170

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