once things fell apart w. the first factory, production of Epic boats and paddles was in hiatus. Greg Barton was simultaneously looking at two options:

#1, to bring production back to the U.S. New moulds would be made there. Those who know about this process know it's neither easy nor cheap to produce moulds, even replicate ones.And the originals were still held by the first vendor which was one of the driving issues for the lawsuit.

Epic got a large warehouse in Charleston with the idea of being able to address pending orders by selling new old stock.
They then proceeded to bring all available inventory from countries other than China (incl. European countries and Australia) and in fact had a huge sell off in early November 2009 of this older unsold product. This appeared in a log entry for a meetup group in the Charleston area.

At that point many (incl. the Epic reps to whom I spoke)
thought that production was shifting to the U.S. Barton was spending an inordinate amount of time dealing w. the Chinese
and they were concerned about production delays and quality control of the first vendor.

Option #2 was to find a second Chinese vendor, in another province, which is what wound up happening. Greg Barton still had to spend much time overseas to get things up and running smoothly w. vendor #2. Apparently things are satisfactory enough that the idea of bringing production to the U.S. was dropped.

My sources are people who rep for Epics in particular a conversation of last July (July 2009). I am OK w. admitting that my statement about production in the U.S. was wrong. It was the last thing I'd heard about it.

*****************

The bigger picture is why Americans continue to buy products made in China which is, by far, the largest holder of U.S. debt, which is a threat to our still precarious economy.

China is well known for disregard of intellectual property rights, copyright, and flouting of the most minimal environmental standards for industrial production.

Especially when it comes to buying non esssentials like sports toys (yes, they are nonessential, even to people here) China is not getting my business. And many other people are making that decision as well.

the attached link to an article on the Frontenac Outfitters website is very much on point:

http://www.frontenac-outfitters.com/kayaks/made-in-china.cfm

This article was released in January 2009. Since then Necky has moved production from China to Thailand.

It would be interesting to have a discussion about this. I'll be back after the weekend. Ciao!

It sounds like I am going to get a nice high quality Epic 18X Sport. They should have all the kinks worked out by now and making some great boats!
I dont have any problem buying from China or anywhere else, we are all inhabitants of the planet earth and belong to the same species. Plus, we are helping poor starving Chinese people by giving them jobs.

Nhk, do keep an eye on the Spectra rudder cable situation when you get your 18X Sport. When my friend's cable broke, his rudder was over to one side and could not be centered by him while seated in the boat; I came alongside and centered it for him. He was glad he hadn't been solo and offshore when the cable frayed, as he would have had to exit the boat in order to center the rudder so as not to paddle in circles. He also said that, without the rudder's retractable skeg deployed, he found the boat quite a handful to handle in the following seas that marked the route back to the launch site. And he couldn't deploy the skeg because that would have released the rudder from its locked, centered position. My older 16X has a conspicuous nubbin, bump, fin on the underside of the rudder that serves as enough of a skeg so as to enable fully controlled paddling with the rudder kept centered; the newer rudder replaces that fin with the retractable skeg within the rudder.

It will be interesting to see how/if Epic deals with this situation, if it does become a widespread complaint (the Spectra cables' fraying problem). I would suggest that they refigure the rudder with stainless cables, or, more difficult for them to accept, that they revert to a stock Feathercraft or other type rudder. I'm happy with my 2009 16X as it is now, but let Epic owners be aware of what might develop.

Ya, I will take a close look at that when I get the new boat. My Easy Rider tends to wear rudder cable too, but that is because they go through small holes in the Hull to run exterior to the rudder.

Also I usually never paddle without a rudder unless I am in close to shore and need to maneuver. So, I will look into stainless also when the time comes.

So far I cant find anyone else posting on the internet about the rudder cable problem? I wonder if that is the problem Freya had?

IT'S HERE! I'm going to pick it up tomorrow...I cant sleep I'm so excited...

It took approximately 45 days from time of order to receive my new Epic 18X.

I still wont be able to paddle it until Wednesday night though...

Congrats, Nhk! Hope you enjoy the boat to the max. My friend loves his 18X Sport, now that he's gotten through the frayed-cable problem. I'm continuing to LOVE my 16X, warts and all.

Ya, I can see what you mean about the rudder lines. I will see how they hold up for now, but I have been looking into some material called Dyneema®. It is 18 times stronger than steel, floats and is water proof. They use is for sailboat rigging and many other uses. This may be the way I go when I replace the lines someday. Dyneema® doesn't cost that much either.

My new Epic, now I just need some time to paddle...

Great looking boat. I am getting a new boat for X-mass and having a hard time decideing between the Epic 18 and the QCC 700. Both are great boats that are very similar.

Keep one thing in mind.

I am 6'3" tall, 210lbs, with size 13 feet and I use almost all the adjustment up on the Epic 18x sport. So if you are bigger than me you might want to make sure you fit, especially if you have feet bigger than 13.

I was torn between the two boats also, but I could not find a Qcc-700 to demo anywhere in Washington or Oregon, so I went whith the Epic and Epic usually wins all the races around here too, so I know it is a fast boat.

I am 6'3" 170 LBS size 11 shoe. Have paddled a QCC 700 but can not find a Epic 18X around here to to try. Both boats have a good reputation for being fast, Quality boats and the operator is probably the biggest difference in them.

Yes, they do look very similar, except for the rudder design and cockpit design. The hulls look very similar though.

Well, I though I would post an update on my EPIC. I have gotten out for a few paddles now and have it tuned in and trimmed fairly well now. I got out on Lake Washington the other day in some rough water and was pleasantly surprised!

This kayak tends to slice through the waves like a knife instead of bouncing over them like my past sea kayaks and it is very stable at all angles to the waves. I felt very fast while going straight into the wind and waves and also at other various angles. The GPS said I sustained an average of 5 MPH speed for 50 minutes. I could only do 3.5 to 4 MPH in my past boats, so I am very pleased with the performance of this awesome sea kayak so far.

I can hardly wait to get on some long distance trips this spring and summer. I am kind of a fair weather sea kayaker and do mostly ww in the winter, so the Epic X Sport is relegated to day trips for now...

Nhk, glad you're really liking your 18X. My friend took his out through the inlet into the ocean yesterday and fooled around out there for a while. He checked out about 25 seals that hang around Little Egg Inlet all winter, and overall had a fine time. He's as happy with his (now that he's had the rudder cords replaced)as you are with yours, and I am with my 16X.

Nhk750,
I might never get up to Lake Washington, but just in case I do, where is the best place to put in? Is the parking secure?

Since I would be coming from the south, I guess I would be more interested in something near Renton. I've been on Lake Washington, but it's been a long time and it was in a sail boat. We used to come in through the ship canal to see the hydro races.