Happy to get out today with the beautiful weather. Water temp 69 so still good. I leave the dock with all my accessories I hate to leave something behind. Paddle down the canal and I hear a jingling. I start to look on the deck if anything is loose but find nothing. Then I see the hatch latches straps hanging in the water. I paddle back to the dock, secure them and start over. PITA rolling out of kayak on to floater but it is getting easier.

Not the greatest at getting the spray skirt fast I would have a nightmare in any kind of water conditions. I guess then necessity would be the mother of invention. Take off again and skirt pops off. Try to put it back but realize the skirt bungee popped. Try to feel it but no luck nothing there. Go back to dock and take everything off and tie a proper knot this time. This time a bit faster at getting it on and leaving. I was trailing a 70-75' party / fishing charter boat with a party on board. It was fun to follow them as they had some good music to paddle with.

Heard a few comments from that's good exercise to that guy is crazy I would drop dead if it was me. Some were probably younger than me. Most boaters were friendly today and courteous and waved as they went. Seemed with the great weather everyone was happy. Went out again later and said it's flat and 5 mph zone so I skipped the skirt. I went outside the 5 mph zone and boat zooms buy and water rolls up the deck and in my lap. Not a lot but I thought I was going to have a dry & warm paddle. Not much passed my lap just enough for me to get the water temperature.

Hopefully tomorrow I will be less of a rookie after my rescue class at Empire Kayak. I post how much water went into my thick head and up my nose.

They had the local Empire Kayak Pumpkin Race today it was a two mile race where you go to an island and grab a pumpkin and paddle back. It was a great turn out with couples and mothers and fathers which I thought was great. Few good fast boats but I was hoping to see more. Many mothers and fathers with their kids there. Many couples in doubles also having fun. Winner was back in 19 minutes +. I'll be ready next year to give it a go. They also gave out some old issues of sea kayak so I have some more reading to do.

I hear there are a bunch of charity races on and near Long Island. I'll have to check them out next year.

I also want to spectate the mayors race in NYC which was this Aug. I will try to look for some youtube on it. It is 26.5 miles around Manhattan so that is a real race and probably fast paced.

thanks for the ear.

found this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Rf_ati6VM some other neat races pop up also with great video and great boat handling.

here is one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oDpWYkXA9A&feature=related


dam fast boat and people in some good water. Now I know they call then ski's


Guess I took this off topic but here is another one with machines paddling! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUrL7Tmfnt4&feature=related

Dog, it's easy to tell the serious, experienced, informed kayakers from everybody else--the novices, the newbees, the casual sunshine paddlers--the serious kayakers are the ones always wearing their sprayskirts and PFDs.

I never ever take out my kayak without the spray skirt... except for the one time I forgot to take it... which was two or three months ago.

I felt totally undressed without it but made the most of it by doing nothing but rolling sans skirt plus a few re-enters and rolls. Good thing it was a very warm day:)

Went on a guided trip on Lake Huron in early August and much to my amazement, I was the only one using a spray skirt. One person rarely wore her PFD. And before we departed we didn't do any rescue practice. As usual I flipped the boat a couple of times to see how it handled rolling with a full load. Neither of the skirtless guides did.

While paddling on the trip I did mental reviews of assisted rescues in case someone got into trouble. Fortunately no one did.

I'm an intermediate paddler that has mostly been YouTube trained yet out of this group of five and two guides, I somehow ended up being the most savvy paddler. That just ain't right.

Just remember always check your gear before you push off and always have a backup plan.

So all those folks (including me sometimes) in recreational and sot kayaks are not "serious" kayakers. That's good to know, but I guess I'll just enjoy it anyway.

Well actually I guess that one gets a 'pass' for using a spray skirt on an SOT . I've seen a couple of Tsunami Ranger video snips on YouTube (now those are SOT extremists). Anyhow I bet that if you were spending a week on Lake Huron in conventional kayaks with a bunch of strangers, you would use a spray skirt and you would have your PFD on all the time. And you would want to have everyone on the same page for rescues.

There was one day on the lake where the waves were picking up and some of the group started taking in some water in their cockpits. Not good. And I'm pretty sure that if the wind and waves had kicked up anymore, some of the group would have been in trouble (I was the only chump that could actually roll or re-enter and roll).

Frankly I don't consider myself a 'serious' kayaker. That's a personal call. I just try to play moderately safe as other than three guided trips, I am a solitary paddler. Because my rescue skills have improved over this summer, I was able to get out on Lake Erie and have reasonably safe fun during a small craft advisory with waves pushing five feet.

Hey, to each their own...

Magooch, your analysis is correct. This is a sea kayaking message board. Serious, experienced, informed sea kayakers wear sprayskirts and PFDs. No, people paddling surf skis don't wear sprayskirts; you've made a telling point there--they don't have cockpit coamings to attach their sprayskirts to. But, that aside, you will agree that serious, experienced, informed sea kayakers wear sprayskirts and PFDs. Byron, you and I are both often solo paddlers--and, be certain, you are a serious sea kayaker.

Well I guess I'll have to be content to be a half-serious sea kayaker. I always wear my pfd, but I rarely put on my skirt, but it is always in my day hatch.

Out of curiosity, I have to wonder how many times any of you has ever capsized unintentionally. I know I never have in a sea kayak; I've never even come close. I know one guy who has, but he doesn't count. I think he was a bit tipsy at the time and he was about 3 feet from shore.

I'm very sure it has a lot to do with where and under what conditions I paddle and I'm also sure that if I ever do capsize, it will happen whether, or not I have my skirt on. I'm not afraid of the water and I am a very good swimmer and where I paddle, it is not possible to be more than a quarter mile from a shore (island, or mainland). If I were paddling in the ocean, I would most assuredly wear my skirt, but I have no plans at all to venture into the Pacific.

Magooch, I totally believe that you've never even come close to capsizing.

Yeah, but what about my question; have you ever capsized unintentionally and has your skirt ever kept it from happening?

Yes, I have capsized unintentionally; I've been with others who have capsized unintentionally and aided in their recovery, and I've come close to capsizing on several occasions--sometimes in really big chop (broaching), breaking beam seas and from a rogue wave. Yes, my sprayskirt has, many times, kept me from capsizing by preventing large, destabilizing quantities of water from suddenly being dumped into the cockpit from breaking waves, big chop, or big boat wakes. But we've discussed this topic several times now.

It would still be interesting to hear what other people's experience has been.

@ Dogpaddler - sounds like you had a good day's basic rescue session... now ya gotta practice, practice, practice. A competent T-rescue can be done in 1:30 or less, & I know more than a few instructors that do it in a minute. Me, 1:20 when I was timed, and this summer I took an advanced session at symposium and got a few bad technique habits cleaned up.

So my philosophy is always be open to learning.
And practice. Practice in different conditions as your ease of doing rescues growns.

Once a year or just taking a class is not enough.

There are a lot of variations on the T rescue. Some work better than others for people w. less upper body strength. Here are some: the Heel Hook, the Twist, the Crab (aka Between the Boats), Face up between the boats, the Cowboy T.

There are also a couple variations w. the paddle float that are much quicker - try putting it under your armpit and twist in, or under both your shoulder blades and reach over. I can't really detail them here, and they are not widespread, just check them out if you meet someone who knows them.

The Cowboy Scramble will work in waves 2-3 feet but you have to be quick and stay low.

Re-Enter and Roll is IMO the second best self rescue after the roll. My cockpits are small, I am practicing getting back in underwater, that is the hard part for me.

In time you can also learn the Scoop, the Hand of God and the bow rescue (sometimes called the Eskimo bow rescue).

For where you are it's best to have a couple of rescues down pat. Then start working the variations.

your partner w. the health issues - kudos to him for his efforts. Hope he told the instructor about them beforehand. Not desirable to be out on the water and find out that someone has disabilities or health issues that either a) make rescuing them more difficult or b)makes them less capable of rendering aid to others.

Anyways you did have an excellent session which highlights again the benefits of a lesson w. a competent instructor. And you went into it w. just the right attitude.

This will save you hours of figuring it out and learning bad habits.... like stirrups, or never capsizing '-)

never capsizing would be a nice habit but I doubt sustainable for me where I like to go.

You wouldn't think so if you happened to hear me giggle like a little school boy when the waves rock my boat. I used to say "little school girl" but now it seems that all those "little school girls" are sailing solo around the world... I can't even begin to wrap my mind around that.

Regarding the unintentional capsize discussion, I've come very close numerous times... just managing to brace my way out of it. Up on Lake Erie there's a kayak rental concession and on warm days the newbies take to the lake in droves. On those days I nearly always see a couple being fished out of the water by passing boaters. A few of the newbs manage to flip just trying to launch (I really enjoy watching that). I'm happy to say that I've never gone over while launching...

I've gone over both launching and landing. Just clumsy, I guess.

what's a serious kayaker? I dunno LOL. Is that like being an "intermediate paddler"? Cuz I've met quite a few of those IRL They get humbled pretty quick when it's actually time to do something other than the basic strokes.

I do know the many advantages of wearing a skirt. So many advantages from greater boat performance in deeper edges and braceing the ability to sidescull low into the wind, or balance brace to relax/cool off/practice greenland rolls. Going thru surf (launching and landing).Staying warmer in cool air temps. Those are just some of them.

What's the big deal about capsizing and pulling the skirt? It's a piece of equipment (and a damn useful one too). Capsize, get out, figure out the best way to get back in. Should be part of every kayaker's repertoire, no matter what they paddle, or if they're "serious" or not.

I always wear a skirt. Well, check that. I also have an SOT so may I be excused? '-) And twice I've been in shallow rivers where the water is less than two feet deep, no room to wet exit.

I capsized unintentionally twice in moving water, a few times doing braces in rebounding waves, and once in a particularly nasty broach in a fully laden seakayak on a rocky shelf beach on Lake Superior. I opted to stay in the boat, and the skirt helped keep me in. Had I come out my head, neck and shoulders would have been even more exposed. Convinced me to buy a helmet, yessir.

Capsizing, unintentional or not, is no big deal. To capsize is human, to learn from it is divine '-)

For purposes of discussion on this sea kayaking message board, let's state that wearing a sprayskirt and PFD are necessary, but not sufficient, conditions for being a serious sea kayaker. Translation: wearing a sprayskirt and PFD doesn't itself make one a serious sea kayaker, but no serious sea kayaker is found without this gear while on waters appropriate for discussion on said message board.

I second that SM.

If people want to paddle rec boats e.g. without a skirt or a half skirt that does nothing but keep the sun and spray off their legs, or paddle a seakayak recreational style (e.g. sans skirt) that's fine, paddle on. But not wearing a skirt is not using a seakayak to its full potential where they were designed to be paddled, e.g. open water.

There are other boards for a mix of paddlers. Nothing wrong w. a fun rec boat or SOT, or a nice little daytourer. I own an SOT (well, two as of tomorrow, 2 ww boats, and 2 seakayaks)

These are SeaKayaker's forums. This is a seakayaking board.

As for wearing a PFD, in my circles, they are worn, without a second thought, regardless of what one paddles. For club events they are required to be worn whenever on the water.

I've heard many excuses for not wearing one, but no reasons.

Can a person go without one if they wish? Of course, it's their choice. Just as it's my choice not to paddle with them.

On YouTube there are a few short takes of the Tsunami Rangers playing in very rough water. Does anyone know what make of SOT's they use?

Based on the vids, I bet they buy 'em in bulk. For example:



I certainly wouldn't buy a used boat from these folks...

Cool video! Big adrenalin junkies! Nice find and I have been looking for vids like that on Utube

Notice the first guy was strapped in? You see him release the belt. Is that common to do?

[quote=DogPaddle52

Notice the first guy was strapped in? You see him release the belt. Is that common to do? [/quote]

I'd hazard to guess that under those condition, it would be essential to buckle up in a quick release set up as those guys & gals are getting some serious air (and water), just as the need for helmets. Reminds me of the demolition derby's of my youth.

Nice camera work too.

It used to be that the Tsunami Rangers had their boats custom-made, and maybe still is that way.

plenty of vids like these around. Entertainment value mainly.
99.9% of paddlers will not be out in anything approaching these conditions.

In the current (Oct) issue of SeaKayaker a Tsunami Ranger recounts going out into a fog alone to get back to a planned take out. His Ranger companions all urged him not to go, and one of them (Eric) offered to accompany him.

You can read the details of his ordeal in the 'zine.

To his credit in the final section "Lessons Learned" he says

"On the beach the morning before my departure, Eric pointed out that at my age I had no business trying to paddle out alone. He argued that at 69 all of my reflexes were probably a bit slower, my reserves naturally lower and my eyesight less acute than those of a younger paddler. Now after being lost at sea for nearly eight hours and becoming exhausted to the point of near helplessness, I must admit that he was right."



Pick your heroes carefully. They are human and can make mistakes. Big ones, too.

Yeah, I did read that. I couldn't believe that he pushed off on that day. He was very lucky to not to become fish food.

DogPaddle had posted a very good article about the Tsunami Rangers that appeared on SFGate.com


This link will take you to the article
http://articles.sfgate.com/2005-05-05/sports/17373031_1_pillar-point-grand-finale-half-moon-bay

yeah, someone once posted elsewhere that the two kinds of kayakers most likely to get into trouble like that are novices who don't know what they don't know, and advanced kayakers who think they know it all.

I'm truly glad he made it out OK and had the humility to look at what he could've done differently. A good practice for all of us.

His wife prolly wanted to wallop him upside the head tho LOL.

Proven many times you never know it all about the ocean even in a 1000 foot tanker ship.