I guess it is not so hi-tech but and features I should look for? New to sport and just got a composite from SOT boat. Thanks for any help.

Get a good cheap one, because you probably will lose it, or break it before you'll ever use it. I've been paddling for years and in lots of rough water and I've never used my pump except to suck the last bit of water out of the boats when I wash them. Any boating supply store should have a few to choose from. Most kayakers buy the ones with the padded sleeve, but they cost quite a bit more than the ones that don't have the sleeve. You shouldn't have to pay more than about $20.

Unlike my friend Magooch, I've used my pump on several occasions to pump out other people's boats after they've capsized and then been gotten back into their cockpits. You won't lose it if you attach it with a maybe 4 foot piece of cord to the side of your seat and keep it inside the boat between the side of the seat and the hull. Most people end up with the Thirsty Mate pump; they don't break--I've had mine for 26 years and it still works like a charm.

Gotta agree w. Strange Magic.

If you really go after it learning rescues, learning how to paddle a flooded boat, etc, you *will* need a good pump for that...and if/when you are in rough water, or you are helping someone who is, you will need it even more.

Don't skimp on safety equipment - be it bilge pump, paddle float, tow belt, whistle, helmet etc.

I'd rather spend $30-$35 once on a good pump rather than $20-$25 2 or 3x or 4x on a cheap one. Plus what does cost matter if a pump fails when you really need it? Be sure to test your pump several times during the season.

The cheap ones have plastic pump shafts. The shafts get grooves when sand, etc mixes w. the water. Then they get clogged and jam. A removable foot helps some, but if it's a thin skincoat of sand on the shaft, it's still a PITA.


The good ones have stainless steel shafts. Here's three:

The Beckson ThirstyMate as mentioned.
The Current Designs Pump
The Outfitter Model by Seattle Sports (this model only, the
blue and yellow one is the basic and cheap)

That said, I don't pump out my boat when I reach shore after paddling. I just grab the bow, tip it over and wiggle it a few times. 95% of the water drains out, leaving very little to wipe out. Pumping out in that case is for da birds

I must be doing something wrong, because I seldom even have to wipe the inside of the cockpit with my Shamwow--even on my rec boats.

Bought one at the kayak store yesterday and used it soon after! Seattle Sports. Metal shaft plastic housing. IS the CD one metal housing?

Anyway I see a boat 23' IO with 6 people all yelling and waving yesterday. Paddle over and kid runs to the boat and grabs it getting me out of shape. I could not really hear them well and they didn't speak good English. So finally I tell the guy to call SeaTow and he gets it. He calls 411 for the number as I didn't want to get my phone out to give him the number. I assumed he got through.

While all this is happening some party boats are going by with a big wakes coming. I am now knuckle walking the boat on the sand bar as it was not floating much most of the time. I was ready to get out but hung in there. While trying to escape the shallows I took some waves over the side. They almost knocked me and the Kayak over. So now I got to use my new bilge pump in the first hour. Finally got clear of the mess and called SeaTow on my VHF to tell them and make sure they were coming.

Guess I should of had the skirt on but it was real hot and it was the second time out in my new Solstice. Then where three channels intersect I ran into the perfect storm of wakes from some big boats and small. This lead to the most confused water I have seen in my short Kayaking career to date 7-5-10. Only sad the GoPro was on the deck and not my head to review this turmoil later from the couch. It made it fun but I thought I may be going over or pumping again. I put a leash on the pump before I left. New boat took the water good and with my limited experience and what I read I had enough to get through it.

Next Sunday is lesson time with the instructor then I will feel even better.

magooch, maybe you're not going upside down or sideways as much as I do... on purpose of course '-)

Dog, sounds like you got the same one I have... and yup the CD bilge pump has a metal shaft.

Way to baptize it '-)

Yup, wear the skirt. You can do so much more w. one on.

Is it a neoprene one? Those will be hotter but one trick is too swish it in the water then put it on. Then scull or do a hip snap off another kayak's bow if you need a quick cooling off (I'm assuming a roll is on your punchlist).

Oh and if it's a new skirt/new boat, esp. if it's a neoprene one which fits more tightly to the coaming, it's perfectly good sense to do a couple of test wet exits w. someone standing in the water spotting you.

By wet exit I don't mean just flipping over and falling out.

I mean a controlled wet exit where you stay under, tap the boat sides three times, and slowly move your hands back and forth with your palms perpendicular to the sides of your boat. You should be comfortable doing this for a span of 10 seconds, increase it from there.

Practicing wet exits is another way to cool off. And then you can practice getting back in your boat.


You will have hours of fun w. this new boat
Big ups to you for getting instruction, too.

I have a nylon Current Design skirt that came with the boat. Has like a rubber film on the inside. Rolling is on the list not sure if it will happen before the spring. One lesson this Sunday if a few others book. I guess the teacher wants to make a few bucks and not spend 3 hours with me alone in the water for 75 bucks.

I'll have to try the skirt on sitting in the boat to see how best to pop it on. I guess the rear first and work it forward?

heading for the below in bold. I doubt I could take 6 hours in the water as it is about 65 degrees at best. Good way to learn to where a suit. I guess I may have to take the Quick Start course first anyway?


http://www.empirekayaks.com/index.shtml
Oct

Sun. Oct 3 Quick Start 9-12, Rescue 12:30-3:30

$75.00 / Clinic includes kayak, equipment and top notch instruction. (KFAC Clinic/$100)
ALL CLINICS ARE CASH ONLY!

ACA Quick Start Clinic is an introduction to paddling a kayak. Students are presented with basic information on equipment, carrying, launching, landing, dressing to paddle safely, potential hazards and simple rescues. Basic strokes covered; forward, reverse, stopping, turning and wet exit. A perfect course to enhance the enjoyment and safety of the entry level paddler. An ACA participation card is given to students.

Rescue Clinics could also be called recovery clinics. In this class students learn what to do in the event of a capsize. Different assisted and unassisted techniques along with a simple contact tow are taught so you can help yourself or someone else back into the kayak. This is a fun, wet class.


that is what is offered. I am guess I'll go for the Rescue clinic?

Not even sure if they are having both or just ACA Quick Start Clinic? I will call her on Friday or she is supposed to call me to see if it is happening.

These people should rent a scuba pool for winter lessons. People could bring their boat to be familiar with their boat. Not perfect but a good place to start rolling I guess?

My main interest at this point is to be able to get out of it the secondary priority is to get back into it. Most likely if I go it it will not be flat water like I see most of the youtube vids. I only found one where the guy empties the boat in some 3-4' seas and hops back on like "The Lone Ranger" if you are old enough to know what I mean?

The Rescue Clinic sounds great. The price is very fair. Took a BCU/ACA course in summer of 2007 for $85. Take one every year, but now do it as part of a symposium - three days of all kinds of classes, excellent deal.

Tell the instructor you have a new kayak and skirt and you want to do a test wet exit, or a few. They'll understand and want you to tell them things like that. I know, having assisted an instructor at rescue practice for newbies. An experienced kayaker spotted me for my first wet exits. It's no big deal, just good to have backup.

You are going to practice getting back in anyways, so you may as well practice getting out '-)

You might want to invest in some nose plugs before class.
Smiley's are good, something on a small cord. The cord ain't long enough for us seakayakers, we don't wear helmets as routinely as our ww kin, so use a short piece of nonfrayable cord to attach the noseplugs to somewhere on the front of your PFD where it'll easily reach your nostrils.

You are right, most rescue situations are not flat water, but stuff can happen anywhere. We had a person go into an asthma attack and capsize. Another time someone got spooked by an insect and went over. And there is the famous turning-around-to-get-at-the day-hatch LOL

So we learn them on flat water, and practice and keep practicing in progressively more waves and wind.

Yup, to attach a skirt you pull it on over you - the tunnel should be high on your torso, on the upper part of the sternum (breastbone). Get in, put the spray deck completely over the back lip of the cockpit coaming, then lean forward slightly w. both hands pulling the skirt towards the nose (very front) of the cockpit. Snap it over the nose, and then run each hand back along the side, tucking the rest of it under the coaming. The spray deck s/be relatively taut, actually the tauter the better, so that it won't implode under waves... or boat wakes '-)

oh and make sure the grab handle is on the outside!
Don't be that guy w. the "D'oh" moment!

oh shoot. I forgot to mention.

roll is a foundation skill built on a strong hip snap, flexibility, comfort being underwater and good mechanics.

Boat fit is very important too. So it's too soon for your to even really know how your new boat fits. You need more time in it and doing more stuff with it.

At this stage work on the other skills. A strong hip snap, great boat control and the ability to high and low brace will get you out of a lot of near capsizes anyway.

I did my first rolls in fresh water, believe it or not after a 15 minute session my second time out. My first pool session I sucked, but it showed me I needed to do a better job of fitting out the cockpit so I could snap the boat.

Rolling sessions are tiring, I can only go 20 minutes at a time.And if the water is low 60s like Lake Superior was this summer, I had to wear ear plugs, otherwise the cold water in my inner ear drums was disorienting.

Pool sessions are great, too, the water is usually water. Whatever you find relaxes you.

I second the motion about making sure the grab loop/handle of the sprayskirt is completely free and exposed after the sprayskirt is on the cockpit coaming. Also become very familiar with the move to undo the skirt--often with a skirt that fits tightly to the cockpit coaming, or with a cockpit coaming with a wide lip, you need to pull the loop AWAY from you first to get the sprayskirt to begin to disengage from the cockpit. You don't want to discover this fact while upside down for the first time.

Katabatic, you are right; I don't go upside down on purpose. I tried it once accidentally and didn't care for it. The boat didn't like it either. So I've made a deal with all my boats; I do my best to keep it upright and they do their part. So far it has worked out fine for all of us.

I'm also a bicycle and motorcycle rider and I used to sail a lot. Going upside down in those activities was never my thing either--though I did get that way a time, or two. That's just the way I am.

excellent points, Strange Magic. Another tip, Dog - when you are under, do a belly crunch and fold forward. This orients your body under the body properly and gets your hand or hands in position to work their way up to the grab loop. As Strange Magic said, it's a motion similiar to popping a beer

Once the skirt is off, push away from the cockpit w. both hands on the rim, like you were pulling off a pair of jeans.

Practice releasing the skirt w. two hands, and either hand, while the paddle stays in your armpit. That way it's with you when you exit the boat. Get in the habit of coming out next to the boat so you can immediately grab a deckline, or curl a leg into the cockpit while you figure out your next move.

I don't view capsizing or being upside down as a big deal, whether it happens once or dozens of times. In fact I have learned a lot more about taking care of myself by capsizing intentionally. And also a great deal about helping others.
Maybe I will never need all of it, but I have already needed some of it.

I like to play in and around my boats. It's a wet sport

The famous saying applies "we are all between swims"

but if your comfort level is your priority then of course paddle accordingly.

Rather than sticking a leg into the cockpit, try getting a leg scissors grip around the boat somewhere behind the cockpit. This holds the boat very firmly while you think, inflate the paddle float, whistle a happy tume, whatever.

Thanks for the tips. I have been reading and rereading my book to get an idea of the basic moves. I think I'll skip the nose plug as when I flip I doubt I'll have one on my nose. I raced offshore boats for years and we would have to practice escapes in a cage. They had a aluminum cage with a hole similar to the escape hatch on the boat which is not big. They put you in the cage and buckled you up like the race boat with a six point harness. Then they blindfolded me and submerged it. When a boat goes under or flips it is dark as you can imagine when you are in the cockpit.

So they flip and roll you in the pool to disorient you and then stop. You then unbuckle and try your escape. When a boat goes under or flips the water rushes in the cockpit and if you release harness before it is calm you can be driven under the deck where you are likely not to escape from. So the thing is to not panic. They had a thing called B.R.A.C.E. but I forgot what each letter meant. B was brace and E was escape may be R was release. It may come back if I thing of it.

Many people panicked and came up chocking. My friend was a diver and he was ribbing me. He was one of the panicked ones. The first time I did it I said I have 4 divers spinning me in a pool in a cage the chances of me drowning is about Zero. They made us do it quite often to be more relaxed if it happen in a race.

Most cannot believe I am in a kayak now after doing 150 mph on the water. It is still a challenge with water and a boat and your body is still involved. The honey thought I was nuts because I was outside tonight staring at the new to me 2008 Solstice in the dark. I know the few times I was out in the boat I (and may be you) start to get a bond with the boat like a body part. I was always sad when we sold a race boat for faster, bigger or lighter boat. We sold one boat and it went to Sweden and it was in one race and it burned to the waterline and sunk. That could have been a big loss for me and my partner in the boat. I bonded with it because of all the things I went through with the boat. We won the World Championship in Key West in 1987 in this boat.


I have been over and out once at 90-100 mph and under once in Lake Pontchartrain LA. We were going about 110 and went under about 6-8 feet for 150 feet. The rescue chopper happen to be right over us so when we disappeared from view in a white and hot pink boat they knew we had to be at least 6' under as the lake is quite muddy and dark. Cockpit hatches blew in on me side and it was 10 fire hydrants pouring in. It all happens in slow motion as you look back seeing the water roll up the deck as you go under. Boat was half sunk and I thought the bow had split there was so much water in it. When the boat broke the surface I popped out fast the other guy was stunned for a minute. I released when I saw daylight again.I know the kayak will be the same as it gets me through rough water and tough times.


That is my bit of trivia. So I hope when I go under I don't panic in the kayak. I usually take situations fairly calm as that is you only friend in a tough spot.


If I get the basic escape and re-entry down for the winter I'll be pleased
Rant is over I apologize if you got this far.

Dog, you have quite an interesting history there. You are going to do well in sea kayaking, as you have both knowledge of and respect for the sea. And you'll certainly bond tightly with your boat(s). There is nothing like sea kayaking. When I'm paddling past some marina where boaters are endlessly tinkering with their craft on a beautiful day, I think--You people are farting around with these huge, expensive craft when you could be out on the water, experiencing the marine environment up close like you never have before. But they're not, which leaves the water more open for people like me.

sure you won't be wearing them, but once you start doing dedicated roll lessons, and practice, you'll see the beauty of them ') Some people can learn without them, because they relax and blow out air gently as they submerge. But for most people learning to roll, there are so many things to focus on that the noseplugs take one thing out of the equation and help them relax under water.

one thing you got going for you is that you paddle in salt water. In fresh water (I'm in the Great Lakes area) taking water up the nose is a pretty sure bet to get a bad sinus infection. I clear out my nostrils w. a 50/50 mix of rubbing alcohol and white vinegar, so far so good.

Strange Magic, I only wish my legs were long enough to wrap around like that! Being 5'3" has its challenges...

Seriously a good leg hook into the cockpit is quick, easy and allows me to float on my back a bit whilst I get organized.

I think we are both onto a good thing, tho - don't let go of the boat, and use a leg so that you have both hands free.

what happens in the Lakes? I raced up there and Grand Haven MI was near the roughest race I was ever in. It was weird to yank the boat and not rinse and wash it. There were also races in Port Huron.

Lucky a kayak is easy to pull and rinse well in short order here. Guess when I travel it will wait till I return if there is no water.

what happens on the big Lakes? well, anything can happen, and w. very little notice. The Great Lakes are big enough to make any kind of weather anywhere they want, whenever they want, but smaller than the ocean so a)the onset is more quicker and b) ships can't outrun in as they sometimes can in the oceans.

My VHF is always with me on every Lake paddle I take, and I'm not the only one in the group w. one.

Lake Superior had 17 foot seas overnight in mid August and can do twice that in the winter, easily. Lake Michigan, on the Michigan coast, kicks up some beautiful swells and surf (as does Lake Superior) but I prefer Lake Michigan's on the MI coast as the beaches are sandy and the water is warmer.

That said, the Great Lakes are filled w. many lifetimes of paddling. Incredible beauty and as remote as you care to be, or with all the conveniences of b&bs, wine tours, etc. Plenty of great camping, modern for RVs, campers, tents or primitive
for tents only.



Grand Haven is a beautiful spot. South Haven is gonna be the site for the first annual Surf Jam two weekends from now- kayaks of all sorts, SUPS & surfboards are all welcome. Contact Keith Wikle at gokayaknow.com His event got a mention in the latest e-newsletter by PaddlingLife.


Fresh water is great, much easier on the boats and the gear. But boats are not as buoyant as they are in saltwater.

I do rinse my boats, not due to dirt, scum, etc. but to limit the transmission of certain aquatic organisms from one body of water to another. Also cuz I love my kayaks '-)

Katabatic I meant what happens in regards to the nose plugs on the lakes. I am well aware with what can happen on the Great Lakes. I have read and seen many freighters on the bottom. I still have to admit when we when out to race and all we saw was 7-8' waves with white caps I tuned to my partner and said this is a lake? The Edmund Fitzgerald I guess is the most famous one.

In Grand Haven when I raced there in 87 we hit a wave and shot up so high we came near the helicopter about 25' They were filming the race. Then the air from the chopper goes under the Skater catamaran and blows us nose upward more. To my surprise it was the front page of the paper in Grand Haven the next morning. The photo looked fake. They were not allow to follow the boats as low any more.

People up in MI were always very friendly and helpful. Unlike many not all in NY. I was used to talking to the opposite sex in NY and they were so stuck up. It was if you talked to some one in NY they thought it was a proposal or you were a stalker. People outside of NY are so much friendlier for the most part.

Boats were faster in salt water do to buoyancy we would lose 3 mph as I remember.

My lesson today the instructor had a bilge pump that was what I remember as a kid the old standard gray plastic pump. It has no flotation but a bigger outlet and it pumped more water than my Seattle Sport by far and it was the same size.