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#2631 - 08/20/10 08:51 AM Re: Bent Shafts [Re: magooch]
MikeH Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 03/22/09
Posts: 39
Loc: Springfield, IL
The Werner bent shaft paddles, and, I assume most or all other brands, have their the now common 0-90 degree adjustable feather (in 15 dgree increments with the Werner) and there definitely is a control hand. Also, there is some leeway to hold the paddle off center to adjust for side winds and waves, or to reach out farther for a brace. I really find that I can link different strokes better with the bent shaft, and now when I paddle with a straight shaft it feels like the shaft is "bent" forward.

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#2817 - 09/26/10 02:54 PM Re: Bent Shafts [Re: magooch]
Katabatic Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 122
ah, I use only straight shaft paddles:

Werner Cyprus 205 and 210 cm
Bending Branches Evening Twilight

(I use greenland paddles as well)

never have had wrist or elbow issues
so far so good
most important thing is technique, second most important, the paddle (length, weight, and swing weight).


with the drip rings removed (useless things IMO - it's a wet sport, esp. if you paddle high angle) I have complete freedom to slide my hands up and down the shaft which is nice and quick for a variety of techniques. The dips in bent shafts get in the way.

Here is what a very wellknown Werner rep, and respected pro paddler, told our group seminar about paddle selection:

"Bent shafts cost more and weigh more.
If you don't need one, don't get one.

If you do need one, you may need it bec. you are holding the paddle too tightly and creating strain on your lower forearm. If you really do have a medically verified wrist or tendon issue, the bent shaft *may* help, or may not. It's not a panacea."



As for a lot of coaches and instructors at Grand Marais using them... LOL, they get them at pro discount or less, so they don't have to lay out as much money as we would in trying them.

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#2819 - 09/26/10 04:31 PM Re: Bent Shafts [Re: Katabatic]
ewolin Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 14
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Thd salesman at my local kayak store said the same thing as Katabatic. Relax your leading hand and wrist as you reach for the next plant and you'll be fine. I'm pretty good at relaxing and I've never had wrist problems.

I guess if this doesn't work you might need a bent shaft.

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#2820 - 09/26/10 04:52 PM Re: Bent Shafts [Re: ewolin]
Strange_Magic Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 460
Loc: New Jersey
Katabatic and ewolin are so right about proper technique--one should hold the paddle with only enough grip to keep it from actually falling out of your hands. And often open the high, pushing hand, splaying the fingers so that the paddle loom rests lightly on the base of the thumb where it meets the forefinger. This, plus proper torso rotation, and varying your tempo and your paddle angle, will keep you paddling comfortably all day.

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#2839 - 09/28/10 01:40 PM Re: Open hand position [Re: Strange_Magic]
Katabatic Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 122
I always open my pushing hand w. four fingers fully spread. I call it "saying hello". Can't take any credit for it, as I started doing that naturally, but that position was reinforced by all the good coaches I've had.

It really is worth trying. In group paddles a few people open to suggestions have tried it, and all of them said it made an immediate improvement in the pressure they felt on their hands, wrists and forearms.

A great forward stroke is not intuitive. One coach said that of 100 people 1 or 2 will come by it naturally.

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#2882 - 10/01/10 06:57 AM Re: Bent Shafts [Re: magooch]
Byron Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 08/22/10
Posts: 33
Loc: Akron, OH
I've been using a Werner BS for over a year. Because it's "just a paddle" to me, I don't even know which model it is (but I think it's 210 cm in length).

I like the thickness of the shaft and I actually like holding it in different spots along the shaft as it seems to lessen the stress on my wrists. At this point I consider it a big improvement over my other paddle which has a straight shaft. Only down side is that I do get a bit of flutter.

If I ever bump into anyone using a GP, I'll give one a try.


Edited by Byron (10/01/10 06:59 AM)
_________________________
Byron

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#3143 - 10/23/10 09:24 AM Re: Bent Shafts [Re: Byron]
Nhk750 Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 25
Loc: Seattle, WA
I have paddled for 22 years now and the first 10 we did not have bent shafts available. I used to get sore wrists and forearms then I finally made the switch to bent shaft for WW paddling. I have never went back to straight since. It is so much more comfortable to paddle BS paddle. I even switched to BS for sea kayak.

Since I switched 10 years ago I no longer have wrist or forearm problems and can paddle all day comfortably. I do have great paddle form and work on it every time I paddle, so I feel I can say that bent shaft paddling is the way to go. The weight gain for a bent shaft is negligible at maybe one or two ounces more.

I used to say that bent shafts were stupid when I only paddled straight, but after I finnaly switched and got used to them, I will never go back...

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#3162 - 10/31/10 09:23 AM Re: Bent Shafts [Re: Nhk750]
Nhk750 Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 25
Loc: Seattle, WA
I just got a Corryvrecken Carbon bent shaft 210. What a sweet paddle. It is so light and so much nicer to paddle with than my low angle AT bent shaft 230. The Werner has a more pronounced bent shaft design and seems to be more ergonomic than the AT paddle. I am chomping at the bit to get my new Epic 18X Sport now so I can paddle with my new high angle paddle.

http://www.wernerpaddles.com/paddles/touring/performance/corryvrecken_carbon/

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#3163 - 10/31/10 09:32 AM Re: Bent Shafts [Re: Katabatic]
Nhk750 Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 25
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: Katabatic
ah, I use only straight shaft paddles:

Werner Cyprus 205 and 210 cm
Bending Branches Evening Twilight

(I use greenland paddles as well)

never have had wrist or elbow issues
so far so good
most important thing is technique, second most important, the paddle (length, weight, and swing weight).


with the drip rings removed (useless things IMO - it's a wet sport, esp. if you paddle high angle) I have complete freedom to slide my hands up and down the shaft which is nice and quick for a variety of techniques. The dips in bent shafts get in the way.

Here is what a very wellknown Werner rep, and respected pro paddler, told our group seminar about paddle selection:

"Bent shafts cost more and weigh more.
If you don't need one, don't get one.

If you do need one, you may need it bec. you are holding the paddle too tightly and creating strain on your lower forearm. If you really do have a medically verified wrist or tendon issue, the bent shaft *may* help, or may not. It's not a panacea."



As for a lot of coaches and instructors at Grand Marais using them... LOL, they get them at pro discount or less, so they don't have to lay out as much money as we would in trying them.




Just a quick note on this comment. Everyone has different paddle disciplines, so some people, like me, with great form, paddle strokes and technique, find the bent shaft a great relief on the joints when you are paddling thousands of miles a year. Sure, if you are only a weekend warrior you may not need a bent shaft, but if you paddle as much as possible you may find relief using one. Also, when racing, more people used straight shafts as they can change hand position for different power and stroke styles, but if you don't race then it wont make much difference. I wonder if the bent shaft wouldn't be better for racing too? Anyway, bent has been good to me for the past 15 years and no more sore joints...

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#3177 - 11/04/10 11:33 AM Re: Bent Shafts [Re: Nhk750]
DogPaddle52 Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 08/30/10
Posts: 398
Loc: Long Island NY
When I watch the USK videos I see the guys wrist don't take much of a beating with his methods he uses and his paddle is feather 90*
_________________________
Long Island NY
'08 CD Solstice GT
'03 CD Extreme
'10 Ocean Trident Prowler
'10 Hobie Quest.

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#3807 - 03/31/11 06:00 PM Re: Bent Shafts [Re: DogPaddle52]
Ray Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 5
Interesting discussion. Ben Lawry will tell you that straight is the way to go. He did a demonstration for us that made complete sense to me. It was very technical, and I need to do more work to figure it all out for myself, but the conclusion I came to was that he is right for the stroke he is doing. He is teaching a power stroke, similar to a racing stroke, with a very high angle. As I work more on this technique I may find that the bent shaft I've been using for 5 years needs to be replaced, but I suspect not.

I find every stroke and brace easier with a bent shaft because I always know exactly where my blades are. Unlike other commenters, I find myself able to put my hands wherever I want on the shaft for specific strokes or to counter wind. I roll better as well. I can feather it in 15 degree increments if I want, but generally it seems paddling instructors and long time paddlers are moving away from high degree feather paddling because the repetitive rotation at the wrist leads to repetitive use injuries, which I have experienced. Ben Lawry also did a demo to show how a feather makes no real difference in a headwind.

My arms sighed with relief when I got my first crankshaft, and my wrists and hands are sore/numb for days if I use my straight shaft spare for a long paddle.

My final note is that a crankshaft is more expensive than a straight one, but not prohibitively. Good paddles are expensive either way.

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#3808 - 03/31/11 06:01 PM Re: Bent Shafts [Re: Ray]
Ray Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 5
... and I laughed when Freya Hoffmeister threw my Werner Cyprus crankshaft at me and yelled "Get me a Greenland paddle. This one is no good...."

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#4329 - 08/22/11 04:59 AM Re: Bent Shafts [Re: magooch]
rhysie74 Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 08/21/11
Posts: 2
Loc: New South Wales, Australia
Hi. None of paddling friends use a crank shaft and they give me a hard time about my Lendal Archipeligo crank shaft but I have been extremely happy with it for the past 4 years. Maybe my stroke is not correct or I grip the paddle too hard but I found that my wrists and forearms did not hurt after a paddle like they used to.(it could also be that my old paddle was a cheap and nasty, very heavy.) My wife has the same Lendal paddle but in a straight shaft and it works fine for her. I found that the initial wierd feeling disappeared quickly on my first paddle with it. The other day I got my kayak off the car ready to go for a quick paddle before work when I realised I had left my paddle at home. I saw that my wifes paddle was in my car so I thought "no problem, I will just use hers'". It felt very uncomfortable and strange even after an hour. I didn't find any difference in my boat control but I did feel a little tenderness in my tendon later at work, so I will keep using my crank shaft. I have thought about trying a Greenland paddle but unfortunately they are few and far between in Australia. The few brands of GPs available here are pretty expensive, so I don't want to fork out a lot of money only to find that a Greenland paddle is not for me.

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#4332 - 08/22/11 09:21 AM Re: Bent Shafts [Re: rhysie74]
magooch Offline
Forum Participant

Registered: 02/18/07
Posts: 638
Some think that once you try a GP you'll never go back to a Euro. Well, they're wrong. I have nothing against sticks, but when I'm in the slop, I want a paddle that will grab a lot of water without submerging half the length.

I use my GP's occasionally for a change. What I notice most about them is that they inherently increase the cadence--kind of like being stuck in low gear. But different strokes ....

As for anyone thinking that feather makes no difference when going to windward, I'll argue about that till the cows come home. I've been in wind that would almost stop you dead in the water if not for the feather. Yesterday I was paddling into what I estimated at times to be near 30 mph gusts. The sixty degree feather I was using was totally oblivious to the wind.

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