I'm looking at purchasing an expedition Sea Kayak. However, I cannot decide between the Quest and the Tempest 180.

What are some of the pros and cons ( if any) of both the Quest and the Tempest 180?

What do you mean by "expedition" ? What do you currently have? What do you plan on doing with the Kayak ?

I own an Scorpio LV Sea Kayak. I don't like P&H's skeg system. Mine is nothing but a source of trouble. I've heard they've made improvements though. I would say these boats handle very similarly, good edging decent stability, and smoothed chine.

Honestly, I would consider the Tempest 170 among these other two models. Nothing wrong with plastic.

When I say expedition, I mean expedition kayaking. Lots of volume to carry camping gear and go out on excursions for days at a time.
The boat I currently have is a Necky Manatu 13. No rudder or skeg. All i do right now is paddle around Lake Washington. I really want to go sea kayaking in a larger boat.

NYCmitch25: Is there a particular reason why you went with core lite material boat?

Yeah I figured that (1) you had some kind of Kayak already and (2) you had some kind long trips in mind, though I wasn't sure of what your definition of "excursion" really was.

I picked the Scorpio LV because it was at my local dealer, felt great, looked the role, fit me well, and the plastic was several grades above what I've seen before. It weighs in at a good 55 lbs or more and you really become acute of this when carrying to/from the car but I can deal with that. I consider this a swiss army knife of hulls, stable with smooth chine, but enough play to really cut and edge. I'd be happy with this on a lake or in the rough stuff on a wintery day.

To me where it falls down a little bit is that the plastic could be a little stronger, the skeg system could be a little better, the color options could be a little more varied, there should be front hole or attachment instead of a basic handle, could be lighter, top out at a higher speed, and perhaps track a little straighter for my needs.

Regarding Skegs, Rudders, etc. it's obvious that you will really want something in rougher waters. The rudder system can have more issues over the long haul of the boats live but will more likely deploy correctly when needed.


My suggested Kayak considerations:

Explorer by Nigel Dennis Kayaks (highly rated)
Force Category 4 by Impex (nice boat, I've used it)
18X Sport by Epic (speed boat)
NC17 Overnighter by NCKayaks "Novus Composites" (I know little about this one)
Tempest 170 by Wilderness Systems

What I'm looking for is a Sea kayak. One that has large storage for tents and ect. The two boats I was looking into were the Quest (LP&H) and the Tempest 180 (Wilderness systems). I like these boats because of there large volume capacity and the cool hatch cover design. I've used rudders before and had some bad experience with them failing and breaking during a trip. I hear that if your in a rough patch of sea the rudder and skeg can help out quite a bit. The rudder if deployed can add drag and slow you down. Other than that I have not heard any thing bad about them. Have you?

Below are links to the two boats I have been looking at.

Quest
http://www.phseakayaks.com/osb/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2

Tempest 180
http://www.wildernesssystems.com/product...180pro_seakayak

OK, I would assert that these models are most likely not the largest volume models and I was simply offering some alternatives. In fact, readers of Sea Kayaker mag picked the NDK, and I was trying to pass that along to you.

link: http://www.seakayakermag.com/2009/Feb09/readers-choice.htm

Anyway, out of the two, I'd choose the Quest, P&H's are always well built and I think you will be happy with it. I'll leave it at that and let other people respond...

thanks for the input!

Sea Voyager,
My suggestion to you is that you take a little drive down to Tacoma and see what Novus Composites has to offer. If you don't know what I'm talking about, Novus Composits is the builder of what I believe are super expedition kayaks. You might start by clicking on nckayaks.com.

I own one of their 19'-2" models, which by the way is called an "Expedition." They also build 15'-8" and 17'-2" models. These all are magnificent, beautifully built kayaks that you have to see. The pictures don't begin to do justice.

Hi,
Have you made a decision ? Have you tested these boats yet?

no, not yet. I cant seem to locate any shops that sell the OP&H boats.

I'm surprised that P&H lists no dealer for the Seattle area. The Alpine Experience in Olympia is listed as a dealer, but I'm not familiar with that outfit.

However, Alder Creek in Portland, Oregon is a fine dealer and the last time I was there they had a number of P&H boats--including a Cetus, or two. They even had a couple of the newer poly versions. They also have a great website.

I would like to get other peoples thoughts on this topic. Please feel free to chime in anytime and voice your opinion.

Hi - I have had the P & H Quest Expedition size for my regular sea kayak for several years. It is wonderful for kayaking camping - handling well under full loads. I never had a problem with the skeg. I did have to have the back band of the seat retro-fitted for comfort, but otherwise, a great solid boat: stable, yet fast and maneuverable. Just picked it up yesterday from having some gel coat and fiberglass repair work done. Getting ready for my next kayak expedition in fall. Steve

Yeah I should say that the PH skeg isn't the worst thing in the world; it's more of a skeg thing in general opposed to P&H's "issues". We went Kayaking in the LI sound in the winter had to reach into the icy water to deploy skegs on the various boats there (not fun). Days like that make rudders seem more handy. Some boats come with both like the QCC 700x and probably P&H as well.

I find that these British style kayaks are really good at edging and so forth that on a windy day I would really not want to use the boat without a skeg or rudder.

Also, the thread poster mentioned "drag", something which you notice a bit when you are a beginner, but (at least for me), you hardly notice it when you become a more seasoned kayaker as you shift from mostly arm movements to a more serious and efficient core muscle rotation.

I've seen these boats in person, the Tempest looked good but I still don't think it's worth the money compared to the P&H. I'd easily pick P&H over this model. My only curiosity is why this person is ONLY looking at these two particular boats, boats which he hasn't even tested for himself or has the most "volume" for storing goods. I guess I also find the idea of looking for "best cargo room" as the primary reason for buying a kayak is much like buying a car based on the number of cup holders it has ... (oh wait Americans do that every day.. lol).