I would recommend trying out an 18X, an 18X Sport, and also a 16X. Try before you buy. The Jersey Paddler here in Brick NJ is an Epic dealer--you might call them and whomever else around who handles Epics and find out what boats they have in stock and if you can try them out. The Jersey Paddler will let you try out boats on a nearby pond, under various rules and regulations, etc. Whatever Epic you try, don't mess with the Ultra layup--it's just too fragile for the ordinary kayaker. I'm happy with my 16X--but as I hope I've made perfectly clear by now, it's not perfect; no boat is. I think that people just get too wrapped up in the "What is the Exact Right Boat for Me??" syndrome. The truth is that the boat is one of the least important elements in satisfactory sea kayaking--there have got to be 200 models of roughly 17-foot long, roughly 22-inch beam, pointy-ended kayaks out there. The important thing is what is between the kayaker's ears--does he/she have what it takes to be a safe, effective, knowledgable, skillful, fulfilled paddler in a marine setting? Start with any old boat (this advice is for Sea Voyager), get to know it and how to use it, get to know sea kayaking, and then later finding the "right" boat will be easy.

Mitch, looking at one of your previous posts, I see that I owe you info on what paddle I'm using: I use a 220-cm Swift with the 5-inch wide Wind Swift blades, and I have a duplicate for my spare. Also, I can email you pix of the modifications I've made to the hatch straps (I'm not set up to post them here). So, if you like, send me a PM with your email address.

Carl

My friend's Epic 18X Sport came in this week; we went out on the Bay today so he could get in his first daytrip. Boat is all white, with the new rudder and the new hatches (including now, a day hatch). Epic has somewhat beefed up the deck bungees. The new hatches now eliminate the straps; the hatch covers are held on by rotating cams (4 each hatch); the day hatch cover is hinged and held down by a single cam. My friend can reach just about every place in the interior of the day hatch with the cover open, and says it's easy to open and close the hatch cover. I watched him, and it seems OK. We are both uncertain about the two main hatch covers, with those cams--time will tell.

The new rudder with the retractable skeg inside it looks great and apparently works great too. When the skeg is in its retracted "up" position, the rudder is locked in place dead center. Again, we'll have to see how it works long-term. The cord that operates the skeg is really thin.

The boat looks like a million dollars; my friend loves how it paddles, though he hasn't yet had it out in difficult water (it's good enough for Freya, though). The problem, if it is a problem, is that neither Greg Barton nor Oscar Chalupsky are exploration or recreational paddlers, and so do not approach kayak design with the same attention to things like hatches and deck bungees, etc. that maybe another designer would--they want lightness and speed above all. But my experience so far with my 16X, and I predict my friend's experience will be with his 18X, is that the Epics are just plain great touring boats, no matter what little odds and ends may need adjusting by owners of these boats. Another friend, who is Florida-based, tells me that 16Xs are quite common in his neck of the woods.

Further Epic adventures: my friend took his new Epic 18X Sport out for a solo daytrip circumnavigation of a Jersey barrier island known for the highly textured water at the inlet that marks its south end. This was at the tail end of Hurricane Igor--he ran into very lively water but reported that the Epic performed just fine with its new-style rudder. However, 4 of us, me paddling my 16X, went out a couple days later on the Bay, and my friend's left rudder cable broke. I got alongside and centered his rudder so he was able to lock it in straight-ahead position; we then hit the beach so he could see what happened. Seems the Spectra rudder cord had frayed at the left rudder pedal. He did a quickie repair with another piece of cord (nylon), but elected not to deploy the rudder and made his way back to the launch site. Took it to the local dealer, who took an hour and a half to replace the Spectra cord, and said that he's repaired 2 other Epics. I checked out this and found that Spectra does fray easily, though it's very strong, so I'm going to explore replacing my rudder lines with stainless. This may prevent me from easily changing my pedal/footrest position, but this doesn't concern me, as I'm the only one using my boat.

The rest of us had a great day on the water---my 16X was its usual excellent self, surfing chop eagerly, and moving sweetly and easily through the water. As I've said many times, no boat is perfect and now I'll be working on replacing the rudder lines, but these alterations serve to bind the boat and I together into a firmer and firmer partnership.

Follow-up to the Epic Adventures: Frayed Cable Department. I got a pair of replacement stainless steel rudder cables, and added them to my Epic 16X. I did not remove the Spectra lines but rather ran the stainless cables alongside the Spectra. The Spectra lines still are attached (along with the stainless) to the foot pedals, but now are not attached to the rudder yoke--they are just loosely coiled out of the way within the little rudder yoke compartment at the stern. With this setup, I can at any time remove the stainless cables and put the boat back into original spec. The only downside is that, with the stainless cables attached, I cannot change the location of the foot pedals. But that's fine with me, as I'm the only one using the boat.

I did this replacement due to being forewarned by my friend's experience with his rudder lines.

Thanks for responding, I like this review a lot because it answers a lot of questions asked about this boat. Currently I have a nice plastic er I mean "Corelite" P&H which is nice but I'm thinking of Epic as my next boat


Award Winning Luxury Cruises

Ah I see... thanks for the info. I'm still considering this boat heavily... Though justifying it is yet another matter... lol

Where is the Epic made? When I read something about Freya's boat they said something about China for the hull that was being replaced.

They are made in China. They began making the boats in South Africa, but ran into quality problems there. Ditto first supplier in China also, as I recall, but problems are supposedly solved now (vendor #2?). My boat is just fine from a construction point of view.

Wow the misinformation here is epic LOL.

Epic boats are not currently made in China. Production ceased there about two seasons ago due to increasing strains in the working relationship w. the Flying Eagle factory in Fuyang. There was also online evidence of what looks to be copyright infringement by the Chinese boatbuilding company: blackmarket versions which were clearly Epic designs were appearing for sale online.

When Epic sought to enforce their copyright and switch manufacturing facilities, Flying Eagle seized the moulds and said Epic would have to pay a reported $1 million to get them back. In effect that would put Epic out of business.

In response Epic began suit in late 2008 but thanks to the byzantine Chinese court system that'll prolly take years to settle. And who knows if they'll get a fair hearing.

In the meantime Greg Barton and Oscar Chalupsky, sadder, poorer but wiser, moved production back to the U.S. in South Carolina.

here are some links:

http://kayakracer.blogspot.com/2008/12/epic-production-problems-with.html

http://outdoors.fanhouse.com/2008/12/10/gold-medalist-sues-over-kayak-mold/

and the big picture:

http://www.products-liability-insurance....rcing-in-china/

As Greg Barton admits, it did understandably delay and disrupt their ability to supply boats and paddles. however, the Epic rep making the rounds at this year's symposium at Grand Marais had plenty of both for people to demo and hopefully those in the kayak racing community will continue to place orders now that production is in the U.S. and under the direct control of Oscar and Greg.

Now, the deal w. Freya's first (custom) boat in the Australian circumnavigation was that the newly designed integrated, pivoting rudder failed. So Epic had to replace that boat w. a stock boat already in inventory w. the more typical Epic rudder.

I'm not sure where or when the first boat was made but since Freya started out in late 2009 I'm thinking her first, custom boat was made within the year, which would make it a U.S. built boat. The replacement boat almost certainly was.

My 2009 16X is "Made in China under Joint Venture with Hangzhou Great Eagle Watersports Equipment Co., Ltd." So says the label inside the cockpit. Maybe it's a fake!

I'd be interested in the source of the news about Epic now manufacturing in South Carolina. Don't doubt it; just want the source. Must have missed the announcement.

I think I read she had lamination problems on the first boat. It may have never been used not sure.

I just purchased,ordered, an Epic 18X Sport. I thought it would be coming from thier new factory in China? They sent a conformation email that they recieved the order and it should ship in November.

They did not say where it was shipping from. I would like to find out for sure, so I will call them tomorrow to confirm where it is manufactured.

One thing I know for sure, try to find a used Epic 18X and you wont be able to find one. People love these boats and when they get one they rarely sell it.

I did here that they fixed the problem with the Track Master plus pivoting rudder...

Well, check out this article by Greg Barton.

http://www.epickayaks.com/racing/blog/gregbarton/new-epic-production-in-china

It looks like they have a new factory up and running and new molds. So my new boat should be state of the art...

Wow, thanks for the input, Nhk. Your link confirms what I posted about Epic's epic manufacturing problems with China vendor #1, and their subsequent move to vendor #2. Wonder where Katabatic got that other tale?