mitch,
When I was trying out and looking at boats in search of one that would serve as a long distance touring kayak, I too was very aware of boat width. Along the way, I looked at some very narrow boats; I even tried a few out and merely sat in some. Long distance to me means that I will be spending long periods of time in the saddle. Not one of the ultra skinny boats was comfortable for more than a few minutes. One boat I tried was so tight that I couldn't even squirm around.

I began to wonder if some designers are more concerned with skinny as a status symbol as much as a performance factor. I've come to believe that a properly designed boat doesn't sacrifice one aspect in order to maximise another--especially if the kayak is going to do more than one thing.

I'm sure that the guys at Novus Composites could have gone for a narrower boat when they designed the Expedition, but what I've come to realize is that they do things their way and as far as I've seen it's usually for a very good reason. I personally wouldn't want to give up one ounce of this boat's stability and believe me, speed is not a problem.

At the risk of jumping into something already in progress, I would like to comment about the Expedition and weights... a friend of mine has that boat, and if he were soaking wet and wearing combat boots he would not approach 190 pounds. And it is a fast, stable and maneuverable boat for him. I have to say I envy his boat, too.

Width does matter to some extent, though the issue is how much stability/comfort etc. do you want to give up in the process.

I'm about 180lbs (should prob be 170) and could easily fit into a 20-21 inch boat. From the rough formula I used to calculate top boat speed, an increase from say 20 to 25 inches can shave an entire knot off the top speed. Another thing, the hull design of your boat is designed to track really well, so your views about skegs may not apply towards other boats.

Again, this boat is designed for larger people, it's 24" wide and 13" deep, that is a LOT of volume. This boat is a lot like the Current Designs. So stating a starting weight of 190 may in fact be accurate.

Though skill is required to get a boat to top speed, moot point for most people and hence the NC 19 is fine for anyone. I feel that I am really putting in more and more effort in my 16.7 and I'm not going any faster, I can feel the paddles just straining to keep up. Hence this thread ..

The boat isn't the most maneuverable, it isn't the fastest thing out there, nor the lightest... your friend is defending his purchase and would be probably performing better in a smaller 19'er.

...is it a GREAT boat for people who want to take long trips with a nice long efficient hull that tracks really well, has plenty of storage space, and feels safe on the water ... yes!

I don't think anyone tried to claim that the NC Expedition is the fastest, nor the most maneuverable long boat out there. What it is, is exactly what the manufacturer says it is--fast, comfortable, stabil, dry, beautiful, light, and efficient. Trying to evaluate a boat by its raw dimensions is not what I would do. I look at the total package and then try it on. In other words, a boat can have all the "right" dimensions and still not be right for me. I'm not saying that I don't have certain prejudices--I do, but what I have come to believe is that there is no one boat that can do everything really well. I guess I'm lucky that I'm not limited to just one boat.

You make very good points, I appreciate that you take the time to contribute your views about that boat and other things as well ... :-)

I guess I'm limited to one boat because my other boat is a 40' expensive hole in the water to which I'm always throwing money. My thoughts were to find the fastest boat in the 18-20' range and the try it out and see if it's also going to hold up in rougher seas. I guess from what I'm reading, I could have also included EPIC on that list. The NC 19 is a fantastic boat, and I think the reviews show that as well... I like my P&H a lot, it feels safe and stable for the most part...

Magooch. Your last post on the NC Expedition makes a lot of sense - it probably an excellent all-around boat for medium to larger paddlers. The problem is that you like your boat so much that no matter what characteristics someone else is looking for in a kayk, you seem to think that the Expedition or some other NC kayak is the answer. Mitch started with asking for suggestions on "Ideas for truly fast kayaks". I don't know what other critia Mitch has for a boat, but we know he is looking for fast and efficient at about 4.5 knots. Kayaks that are narrower than the Expedition are truly faster and more efficient.

Not long ago, another poster was looking for the lightest possible kayaks. Again, your answer was NC kayaks.

As the owner of a Little Wing, I mentioned Warren Liitle Wing kayaks in response to the two posters criteria of speed and light weight, but I was not so adamant that the Warren boats are the best for everyone. I even said to Mitch that "there are probably other kayaks better suited for your purposes." Why would I say that? Because I am trying to be honest and objective, while not even knowing Mitches' other criteria besides speed.

I can assure you that each of the Little Wings is among the fastest and lightest and most manuverable for its length, and the among the most stable for its width of any kayak ever manufactured. Why would I not recommend Little Wings to everyone? Warren achieves the extremely light weight by manufacturing their boats from a very thin carbon layup over a foam core. I have had my boat only about six months, but it has already accumulated many small dents in the hull, and I have not hit anything that I know of that would have caused any of the dents. They seem to appear for no reason. Becuase of my comments to Zac Warren, they switched to a stiffer foam core and will make future customers aware that heavier layups are available, which should prevent much of the denting. But, their kayaks will no doubt weigh more, and light weight is one of their main claims in their adveritisements. There is always a trade off.

Mitch, if your criteria for your next sea kayak are very rigid and very firm in your mind, then you owe it to yourself to test-paddle under varied conditions at least a couple or three boats. I gather you are interested in go-fast boats that could handle textured water. The QCC 700, the Epic 18X, the KayakPro Nemo all suggest themselves (among others) as kayaks to test. I find kayak "reviews", especially by happy owners, to be the least useful way to find out about any given boat's suitability. I'd suggest that you get friendly enough with any dealers or owners of such go-fast boats so that you can try them out under real-world conditions. There is no substitute.

I plead guilty to pushing NC boats and I'm not backing off one bit. Mitch wants a fast boat that is very seaworthy. That is NC to a tee.

By all means, I would suggest that anyone try out as many boats as possible and there is where the problem comes. NC boats are not sold through dealers, but I think there is one somewhere in the Northeast that sometimes buys one for resale. The same is true of QCC and a few other factory direct boats. If owners can't get the word out about these great boats, then how are potential buyers going to learn about them?

MikeH, I would never suggest that any one boat is the best choice for every paddler--least of all a boat like the NC Expedition, but when someone makes a generally inquiry about a great sea kayak, I'm going to add my two cents.

I can tell that you are very enthusiastic about your boat as you should be and I would never suggest that you keep it a secret.

Did you select one yet?

hopefully, in addition to the already mentioned Epics and QCC 700 the OP looked into the West Side EFT, Van Dusen Mohican K-1.

Check out the Valley Rapier 18 or 20 too.

These are the kayaks seen again and again at sanctioned competitive events. Surfskis in the 18-21 range are frequent entrants and place high as well, but I'm assuming the OP wants a SINK.

Just to stir it up I'll say there is NO British or Greenland style hull nearly as fast as any of these. Including any I own, including - heh - even NC Kayaks.

Just when I think I found all the kayak companies they just keep coming! Cool boats to bad they are over my ability to stay upright!

One of the Epics is 20 feet and 20 pounds. Mind boggling!

eh, they are over most people's ability to stay upright. Many have been humbled

I can paddle an Epic 18x or Rapier 18 straight for awhile, god help me if I had to keep turning in textured water.

Wait til you paddle a surfski (Fenn, Mako, Epic etc.)!
Make it a day you wanna get wet and stay wet. I paddled a Futura 18 footer in carbon w. an 18" beam. The foot braces were frozen and way too long for me to brace against and I couldn't, naturally, work the rudder.(the owner was 6'3") so I had to rely on pure balance. Managed to stay upright but it took a lot of focus and the water was dead calm.

There are also some stunning performance SOTs made in Australia, New Zealand etc. Too bad that Current Designs discontinued the Zone. It was the nearest thing to a performance SOT made in North America.

Actually I think the ZOne was made in China by CD.