Hi everyone,

I'm a complete newbie. Been a diehard snowboarder for the past 7 years. Unfortunately, I broke my ankle twice in the past year so I need to discover a new passion (one that does not require ankle use!). I live on long island, ny and I've always been interested in kayaking so I figured now is the time to give it a try. I'm having trouble finding good information for newbies. Obviously the first thing I need is a kayak but I have no idea what to even look for. Where can I find some good newbie information to get me started? Thanks.

Hi KayBee,

I'd suggest going to an outdoor shop with a fair number of books, and pick up a couple of sea kayaking manuals. Over the years, John Dowd's book Sea Kayaking has held up well as an overall guide. But I'd recommend getting a couple of such books, and reading them all to compare and contrast the information within. The important thing to remember, though, is that sea kayaking (assuming that's what brought you to this website) is a form of marine boating , using the simplest and most basic gear, but still exposed to all the hazards of the marine environment. So there is a lot you'll need to know, in order to paddle safely. Two or three good books can provide much of that knowledge.

Carl

I grew up on Long Island and as a result have a fair amount of boating experience in the area. I've never been a boat owner myself but I do know the basic rules of water. I will definitely check out the book you recommend. I'm also looking for a good resource that will help me learn what is available as far as kayaks go. Any recommendations?

KayBee, most sea kayaking manuals will have a chapter on sea kayak design, choosing a boat, materials they're made of, skegs, rudders, etc. Most people paddling open water regularly paddle boats in the 16 to 18 foot length range, and 21 to 24 inches in the beam. For reasons that completely escape me, there are many hundreds of models available, leading to an obsession among people that they find exactly the right boat for themselves, or they'll never be happy. IMHO the best approach is to read the books, then buy a cheap used boat, maybe plastic, in the length and beam range above, and learn to paddle it. If you are fated to love kayaking (this is what happened to me!), you will find yourself out on the water as often as you can, learning to control your boat, test-paddling other people's boats, and going on trips. And meanwhile you will be deciding about what aspects of your boat you'd like to see improved (if needed) by getting a new boat. Do NOT get caught up in the endless round of recommendations by boat owners--they are meaningless. And do NOT get caught up in the belief that life would be so infinitely better if only you had the "perfect" boat. Sea kayaking isn't really about the boat; it's about what goes on inside your head while you're out on the water.

My Two Cents. Carl

Welcome to the world of sea kayaking, KayBee.

I would suggest that along with what Carl has said, that you find a copy of Sea Kayaker magazine and have a look. I would also suggest that you go to a few websites--like CD Kayaks, NC Kayaks, Eddyline and Necky.

Find a good kayak dealer to hang around and drool over the boats. If you are patient and give yourself time enough to consider all the variables, you'll begin to get a feel for what you want to spend and what kind of boat appeals to you. Just be prepared for your mind to be changed as you go along.

It isn't necessary to spend a fortune on kayaking, but don't kid yourself, if you get hooked, it's gonna be expensive, but it will be some of the best recreation bucks you'll ever spend.

I got started in a one man canoe, which I thought was the ultimate paddling thrill. I am by no means a great kayaker, nor do I ever intend to be, but I now have four kayaks and a one man canoe that hasn't been in the water for years.

I would strongly recommend that you carefully consider just how committed you intend to get to kayaking and if the answer is that you want to jump in with both feet and are the type who takes good care of your equipment, consider getting a composite (fiberglass) boat. If you don't want to spend that much, there's nothing wrong with a good polyethylene boat. Current Designs and some other manufacturers make some very good ones, but be very cautious when buying any boat--especially used ones. There are some very good thermoplastic boats too, like Hurricane, Eddyline and others. But in the end, if you want the real deal, you'll want to think glass. That is why I can't stress enough that you go to NC Kayaks website and maybe even do some e-mailing with Doug, or some of the other great people there who build the most fantastic boats you will ever see.

You might also take a look at Paddling net. They have a lot of useful information like boat and equipment reviews.

Finally, never buy a boat that you haven't tried out on the water and even then, you should try out as many as you can before you buy. Talk to as many kayakers as you can, but you'll have to make your own conclusions, because everyone has there own biases.

Thanks for the advice everyone, it's been extremely helpful. I've started looking on ebay and will visit a few shops in the near future. Most of the offerings on ebay are outside of the recommended length range. I'm finding most are in the 12-15 foot range. Are these unsuitable for a starter boat? I'm assuming weight and build factor in...I'm on the smaller side 5'8", 150lbs.


and whats the difference between polyethylene and thermoplastic?

KayBee, the answer about what boat(s) to look at depends on your understanding of what you expect out of kayaking. If you see yourself on Long Island Sound or Great Peconic Bay or Great South Bay, you're going to want to be in a longer boat (16-18 foot range). For purposes of getting the boat up onto the roof racks, lighter is better, but lighter is costlier. But there are ways to deal with the boat-loading situation; we can discuss those later. Is there a local sea kayaking club you can join? That's a way to get to try other people's boats as you paddle your inexpensive used boat, while you learn about what sea kayaking is like. Magooch mentioned several kayak makers: Current Designs offers a wide selection of boats (get their catalog) that are very well built and that have pleased a lot of kayakers, plus they'll be widely carried by area dealers. But as I mentioned before, don't get bogged down in selecting the right boat right now--much better to get some (inexpensive) boat in the proper length and beam, and start learning about you, the boat, and sea kayaking. There will be plenty of time later to get the "right" boat for you.

Search the Internet for kayaking clubs & groups (I belong to JSSKA.org here in New Jersey)and start looking at their For Sale/Used sections on their Message Boards.

Carl

KayBee, polyethylene is the type of plastic that is used for roto-molded kayaks. Thermoplastic is a harder type of plastic that is formed differently from male molds. Both materials have their pluses. Polyethylene boats are the least expensive, but don't think that is because it is an inferior material. They are cheaper because there is a lot less labor involved in molding a boat from that stuff.

Carl makes a good point and that is that your first assignment is to determine what kind of kayaking you are going to do. If you do buy a starter boat, it doesn't have to be expensive, but I would caution you again about used boats. Always turn the boat upside down and sight down the keel. And while you're at it look for bulges and or dents in the bottom. The keel should be straight from stem to stern. Don't get confused between straight and flat. Nearly every keel will have at least some rocker. Never, never buy a boat with a crooked keel.

If you do buy a starter boat, I would suggest that you don't go for cheap. I still have all the kayaks I've ever owned and I use them all. There's nothing better than a really good recreation kayak for allowing you to be versatile. Sometimes I feel like exploring waters that I would never take my sea kayaks into, but there are few places that I won't take my rec kayaks.

I would suggest that you go for a starter that is at least 13 1/2', or longer. If you do graduate up to a sea kayak, you most certainly are going to want to be up around 16 feet, or more. Length and some other factors translates to speed. Eventually, you will appreciate speed.

I'm going to recommend a couple of boats that I believe are great values and great boats to get started in. If you can find a 138 Old Town Loon in good shape, or an Old Town Cayuga, check them out. A Current Designs Kestal would be another one to consider.

Along with acquiring your first boat, you're going to need a proper paddle. You don't have to start out with a $400 paddle, but you don't want a cheapy either. The best paddle for the money that I have ever encountered is the Sevylor Fiber Pro. You can pick them up for about $80 if you can find one. I have several paddles, but the one that I use most is my Fiber Pro.

Thanks for all the help. I've already learned a lot. The current designs catalog is amazing! It had a lot of the information I was looking for.

One more question. Does anyone know a good online retailer or anyway to find prices? I'm finding prices are hard to come by on manufacturers websites. This makes it difficult to narrow down my choices when I can't even find a ballpark figure. thanks again!

KayBee, NC Kayaks has their prices right on their website (nckayaks.com). They sell all their boats factory direct. They ship boats all over the world. NC does not build what I would call a starter-boat. Their boats are all beautifully hand crafted fiberglass--the best I've ever seen. Of course I'm prejudiced, because I own one.

Here's a hint; if you do possibly have an interest in obtaining an NC boat, they put on some very good sales about two, or three times a year. Look at the instock boats for the prices. When they have a sale, these prices will be very substantially reduced.

KayBee, since you are on Long Island, why don't you plan to come here to Jersey to Paddlesport in March? Easy to get to via the Jersey Tpk. or Rt.1 or the GSP to Rt. 287, exit at Somerset NJ (Davidson Ave) and you're there. You'll see loads of boats and gear. Paddlesport is put together by The Jersey Paddler; they have a huge shop, maybe the biggest east of the Rockies, at the intersection of Routes 88 and 70 in Brick, NJ. Loads of boats there also, and a nearby place where you can arrange a test-paddle.

Carl

(Bump)

Hey,

My brother,his girlfirend and me are going on a 5-7 day kayak-camping trip to islands round Ko Yao (Thailand).
My brother did some sea kayaking in Mauritius and Turkey,and we both dis some river kayaking in belgium(so i guess were beginners at this)

The boats they offer are a perception contour 450 (single)and a perception contour 490(double).


The distances between islands will be around 3-9km.

I was wondering if anyone had some tips for us about seakayaking in general and/or seakayaking in that area.

Thanks in advance,
Ivo

Hey KayBee,

Any boat plastic/wood/glass/kevlar that gets you out on the water is a good thing :-). When it comes down to it, all these boats are basically doing the same thing - helping you move through the water. I like you didn't know much about Kayaks, but I just dove in and spent a pretty penny on a P&H plastic boat which weighs about 60 lbs to me (their claim is 50). I've enjoyed this British styled kayak for the most part, what I liked the least is it's top speed.

Occational Weekenders -
Casual boaters who do not care about anything more than short excursions on a lazy summer day can get away with just about anything that floats. These boats will max out in speed @ 2-3mph and if it tips and fills, you'll have to swim it back to shore submerged. Easy to get these boats, head down to Walmart/Dicks and pick out a 300+ dollar sled which also doubles as a kayak. :-P

Casual paddlers -
Less casual boaters may want something that holds up a bit more, has room for stowing a few items, and has bulk heads which allow you to get back into a boat if you tip and fill it. They aren't strong paddlers so they will pick something 26" wide and initially stable feeling. EMS chain store might have something that meets your needs (in plastic). Probably about up to 15', may come with a rudder. Some people may also opt for a low-end inflatable, etc.


Semi-serious paddlers -
More serious people who make take 10-16 mile day trips, who may encounter waves and want a reasonable amount of efficiency will want a boat that is longer, a little less wide, and perhaps a rudder or skeg. They may also consider other materials that make the boat lighter to help get it on and off the car frequently. Paddlers in this category can either go with a cheaper boat or something in the more serious paddler range.

Serious paddlers -
Serious paddlers will probably not be totally satisfied with one boat. They may want a British styled kayak with generous rocker and length making them fairly good at everything. They may even want it a little wider than necessary to handle rougher conditions. Boats like Current Designs, Necky P&H, Wilderness Systems, They also may want a fast hull which has a plumb bow, long water line length (LWL), narrow, and 18'+ in size. These boats would be like Nigel Dennis or Epic or the QCC.


Popular/Good Boats include:
Tempest - Wilderness Systems
Romany - NDK
Explorer - NDK
18X sport - Epic
Eliza (for women) - Necky
Khatsalano (take apart) - Feathercraft
Helios (inflatable) - Innova

Mitch, by your definition, I guess I'm a serious paddler, or almost, because I don't own any of the boats you listed.

Ivos, not knowing just how much of a beginner you are, I can only say be careful and don't get yourself into a situation you're not ready for. A lot can happen in open water, even when you're only a couple of miles from land. I don't know a thing about the two Perception offerings that you mentioned. Watch out for pirates, sharks and snakes. Don't forget your wide brimmed hat, plenty of sun screen sun glasses and drinking water.

Hey Magooch,
if you noticed I cheated, you could be either semi-serious to serious paddler. :-) Good advice as well.. :-) In Long Island, you could easily get yourself into trouble. I think it's key to have some kind of real communication device (i.e. Cell phone doesn't count).

The question is--can you be serious about kayaking without considering yourself an expert? My answer is yes. I am very serious about paddling, but I doubt that I will ever advance beyond intermediate--whatever that is. I know my limitations and I will not go beyond my comfort zone if I can help it. I'm sure some would think I am overly cautious; that doesn't bother me a bit.

Why doesn't a cell phone qualify as a communication device? I don't always carry mine, but I do when I think there might be a possibility that I just might need it.

Magooch. Like you, I will probably always be an 'intermediate paddler' (I am sure you saw the "I'll Take My Pungo" short moviehttp://www.kayakquixotica.com/2009/11/25/i-will-take-my-pungo/). Nothing wrong with cell phones as a communication device as far as I am concerned, long as you can get a signal. I always carry my cell phone for emergencies, and it workd great where I generally paddle (inland lakes in Central IL). In fact, if I only carried a VHF radio I would never be rescued as no one monitors VHF in my area. However, when I have been in the Apostle Islands in Lake Superior, I could get no signal. I was glad that I also had my VHF-band radio.

Cell phones don't count when it comes to communicating with other vessels in your area. You might be able to call 911 have them patch you through to the Coast Guard who would then put a call out by VHF to a boat that just missed seeing you in the water as they passed by. I like having both, there are certainly times that the cell phone would make more sense but while on the salt water the common communications thread to all boating is the VHF.

As an aside we paddled the upper Missouri River in Montana this summer with our touring boats. I felt really naked leaving our VHFs and flares behind. We did take cell phones which apparently if you hiked out of the river valley might work and we took our laser flares thinking we might get the attention of a plane (although we neither saw nor heard any during our first three days on the water). It was interesting going back to the pre VHF and cell phone days when we had to get ourselves out of trouble or wait till we were reported missing. I will say we were much more diligent with our float plan than we are when paddling areas where we can call for help.

Michael

Yeah, I def. meant that "serious paddler" was a product of time spent doing the hobby opposed to "ability" (despite them being somewhat related).

Not trying to hijack this thread with a different topic - though cell phones should really be considered secondary means of communications. Regarding the comment about VHF - I believe the the Coast Guard (you know, those people who can actually save you) monitor ALL VHF communications. They also give you a lot of information as well including weather and distress calls.

Like what MikeKayak had said, you also have an ability to communicate with other vessels. (Remember, you are also a vessel, you aren't just "some dude paddling".) It would be one heck of a shame if you could have been rescued by a vessel in the area listening over VHF rather than having to go through the 911 system or something and wasting time. Plus someone might need your help. I don't have a hand-held VHF yet, that is on my list along with a SPOT locator.

KayBee,

Your first boat should not be bought factory direct. Buying a boat from clear across the country without ever paddling it is just not advisable. Who will do the fitting for you? Find yourself a reputable local dealer, and test as many boats as possible.

nidave, as a general rule I can't argue with what you advise, but there are exceptions. In any case, it sure can't hurt to take a look at what is out there. There are some very, very good boats that you will never see at a dealer. And if you are looking for a high end boat that excells in performance, fit and finish, the made to order, might be the way to go.

One thing I definitely have learned is that first impressions based on a limited trial of almost any boat is not a sure thing when it comes to selecting a kayak. Of course there are factors that might disqualify a prospect in a matter of seconds. The bottom line is that there is no sure fire way to know that you are getting your ultimate hole in the water.

If I had gone by my initial impression of paddling my latest purchase, I probably would have crossed it off my list. I was used to a whole different type of boat and wasn't prepared for the type of performance that this boat is designed for. I'm just so happy that I kept an open mind and trusted that the builders really did know what they were talking about. After owning the boat for over a year now and having paddled it for many miles, I'm not sure the builders even know what a fabulous kayak they have produced.

Magooch, beginner is not going to know the difference between high end boat and a boat from a big box store. Beginner has no stroke therefor would not and can not appreciate a better boat. He doesn`t even know what kind of water he wants to paddle in. For example, from reading some of your posts, seems you like to paddle calm waters and not do much playing. That`s why you like the NC`s, very little rocker and tracks straight as an arrow. I like paddling in rough water, eddy lines and rolling my kayak. NC would not be the ideal boat for me. Beginner would be better off taking a series of lessons and learn the basics before spending alot of money on a fancy boat. Paddler makes the boat not the other way around.

nidave, do not assume that I like only calm waters. While I do not paddle in the ocean, I can assure you that where I do paddle offers enough variety in water texture and conditions to keep me satisfied. One of my favorite things to do is surf on the wind waves that are modified by an opposing current. There is a particular spot where the wave-trains are very uniform without the complication of side waves to mess up some nice long slides.

I would never suggest that NC kayaks are a play boat, but make no mistake about their abilities in rough water. I am of course very prejudiced, but I would choose my Expedition every time for the rough stuff. I used to think my Sirocco was good in the slop, and it really is, but it isn't even close to the Expedition.

When I suggest to a beginner that they might want to consider something other than a typical beginner boat, I am doing so in the spirit of exposing them to a performance level that many may not experience if they settle for something less. It has been my observation that all too many beginners either regret their first purchase, or soon tire of it and maybe lose interest.

I don't regret buying any of my boats, but I kind of wish that someone had clued me in about some of the super boats that you just don't see at the average dealer. I refer to sporting goods stores such as Capellas, etc.

I thought we offered KayBee good advice earlier in the thread: KayBee indicated by posting here that he was interested in sea kayaking, and knew something about being on the water. The recommendation of reading some sea kayaking manuals, of looking at Sea Kayaker mag, finding a local sea kayaking group/club, and of getting a cheap, used starter boat in the 16-18 foot, 21-24 inch beam range so that he could get out on the water and figure out what sea kayaking was about and what sort of sea kayaking he might prefer, was pretty sound advice. He can try other people's boats while he assesses his own boat and own preferences, then later he can make an informed choice about the boat of his dreams. But sea kayaking is less about the boat, and more about what's in the kayaker's head.

Well guys, I'm not going to give up so easy on the boat. Yes, the paddler has to have the desire to get out there on the water and immerse himself/herself in nature and the elements, but there is paddling and there is paddling. When I got my first kayak, I thought, yeah, this is real and it can't get any better. I thought the same about the next and the next and I still love those boats, but now that I've experienced my new boat...well, it's a whole new world.

It`s this type of attitude that can get a paddler in trouble. Magooch is an accomplished paddler. Any new paddlers out there reading this please take some lessons, at least know how to save yourself in the event of a capsize. The fastest nicest finished boat can`t put your butt back into a capsized boat. In my opinion it`s 90% paddling ability 10% boat. If you don`t want to look at seakayaking this way your asking for trouble.

Dave, I completely agree with the idea of lessons; they should be, along with reading the sea kayaking manuals, an essential part of becoming involved with sea kayaking. My oversight for not explicitly including lessons in my previous post.

First, let me correct the word "Capellas" I used in one of the above posts. I meant Cabellas.

I didn't think I had said anything that indicated that I would in any way discourage beginners from taking lessons, and, or doing some reading. My only point was that I do not necessarily believe that a beginner is any better off in a typical beginner boat than something of a higher caliber.

This is primarily a sea kayaking forum and I assume that most who partisipate here are interested in sea kayaking, so when starting from scratch, I can't see why it would be wrong to start with a real sea kayak. And that is not to say that I have anything against recreational kayaks, or any others for that matter. I also do not believe that a sea kayak has to be difficult and unstable. And I don't believe that a beginner is any more likely to get into trouble in a sea kayak than they are in a boat with less capability.

I actually got started many years ago in a very tippy one man canoe, which I still have, and I ended up upside down in it in very cold water more than once. I can't say that I didn't learn anything from that boat, but if I weren't so stubborn, I might have been discouraged from getting beyond that boat. Back then, I thought that kayaks were even tippier and required a heck of a lot more skills than I would ever acquire. I couldn't have been more wrong.

Magooch says, "My only point was that I do not necessarily believe that a beginner is any better off in a typical beginner boat than something of a higher caliber.

I can't see why it would be wrong to start with a real sea kayak. And that is not to say that I have anything against recreational kayaks, or any others for that matter. I also do not believe that a sea kayak has to be difficult and unstable. And I don't believe that a beginner is any more likely to get into trouble in a sea kayak than they are in a boat with less capability."

I could not agree more. It is important to learn skills, but in my opinion there is nothing wrong with starting out with a kayak that is light weight, capable of handling rough water, stable and efficient to paddle.

I don`t think anyone was saying not to start out in a sea kayak. Paddle anything you like. My point is a "better" boat does`t make you a better paddler. Water doesn`t care what kind of boat you have if something goes wrong out there.

Oh contrare. I don't mean to be argumentative, but in my opinion, the boat can certainly influence ones skills and in some cases, demand that the skills come up a few notches just to stay in the drivers seat. Some boats require less skills and more effort; others may require less in the way of physical effort, but technique and skill become oh so important.

And what happens if ones skills don`t come up a few notches and they get caught out in the middle of a crossing and all of a sudden they find themselves in 4-6ft. sea`s? And Magooch you know that this can happen quickly out there. To late to say maybe I have to much boat for me to handle here.

My belief is that a well designed boat will be of great benefit if conditions deteriorate. Are you suggesting that you would rather be in a less capable boat if caught in less than ideal circumstances?

When I say that a boat might require some change in technique, that is with reference to maneuvering--such as turning the boat if it is a solid tracker. I would suggest that any paddler should be pretty sure of their abilities before venturing into a situation that might go bad, no matter what kind of boat they have.

Sad to say but I can see me having more than one serious kayak. GF said I'll end up with a fleet in the back yard. I love my Solstice but would like something fast if I progress to be able to handle it and may be a British style. Also one poly to beat in the surf like the Delphin 15.

Well, you won't be the lone ranger, Dog. While I primarily like paddling in bigger waters, once in awhile I like paddling in smaller rivers and streams. I will not take my sea kayaks into small streams; thats what my rec boat is for and although it's been a while, I have a very nice inflatable kayak that works great in white water. I even have a canoe, but lately it has been a wall ornament.

there are people who start w. a seakayak, I know a few. I got mine four months into paddling.

But they are in a minority. Why that is, I think, has a lot to do with how kayaks are marketed and the general perception that just about anyone can get in a recreational boat and go paddle. In contrast many view a seakayak as inherently too tippy and the smaller, skirted cockpit induces claustrophobia.

A lot of people getting into the sport like a SOT or rec boat as they are easy and comfortable to use. Nothing wrong w. that. If their interests and paddling venues get more diverse and/or they really get into the sport, they may choose to paddle different boats. Nothing wrong with that either.

Whatever boat you start with, it's important that you, the paddler, have the skills to deal w. the range of conditions in the waters you normally paddle. And part of the skillset is knowing the right boat for the right conditions... and when no boat is suitable (e.g. stay home)

If Person A likes flat water ponds or small gentle streams in good weather the demands on the boat and paddler are obviously less. Person B who wants to kayak large open water, play in surf, go rock gardening, or do Class IV rapids, and will go out in cold water, or days when a marine warning is out, is better served with an entirely different skillset. If their judgment is developing along w. their skills they will probably conclude they need something other than a rec boat.


Plus it's just plain fun to have different boats if one is so inclined.

I thought of selling my two SOT boats. Then even though new I won't get much probably 60% in today's economy. They will be fun to get to the beach in with the cooler with drinks and food with the beach chairs like last year. They are fun when the water is warm to let your legs dangle in the water or take my 9 pound dog for a canal paddle.

Another reason is if friend come over they may jump in a SOT and take a ride with me. Looking at a Sea Kayak is intimidating to may as stated above. When I look this July I wanted simple and didn't know any better figure how will I get in or out of a sit in boat. Oh well now I have both for twice the fun. I picked up my old B&B plastic paddle and took off in the Solstice. Felt like lead compared to my fiberglass Werner.

Like anything if you want to see the fastest go to the races and see what wins!

(Bump)

Well I am up to four so far. Next will be a surf ski I hope when I can handle the CD Extreme / Nomad