Mitch, by your definition, I guess I'm a serious paddler, or almost, because I don't own any of the boats you listed.

Ivos, not knowing just how much of a beginner you are, I can only say be careful and don't get yourself into a situation you're not ready for. A lot can happen in open water, even when you're only a couple of miles from land. I don't know a thing about the two Perception offerings that you mentioned. Watch out for pirates, sharks and snakes. Don't forget your wide brimmed hat, plenty of sun screen sun glasses and drinking water.

Hey Magooch,
if you noticed I cheated, you could be either semi-serious to serious paddler. :-) Good advice as well.. :-) In Long Island, you could easily get yourself into trouble. I think it's key to have some kind of real communication device (i.e. Cell phone doesn't count).

The question is--can you be serious about kayaking without considering yourself an expert? My answer is yes. I am very serious about paddling, but I doubt that I will ever advance beyond intermediate--whatever that is. I know my limitations and I will not go beyond my comfort zone if I can help it. I'm sure some would think I am overly cautious; that doesn't bother me a bit.

Why doesn't a cell phone qualify as a communication device? I don't always carry mine, but I do when I think there might be a possibility that I just might need it.

Magooch. Like you, I will probably always be an 'intermediate paddler' (I am sure you saw the "I'll Take My Pungo" short moviehttp://www.kayakquixotica.com/2009/11/25/i-will-take-my-pungo/). Nothing wrong with cell phones as a communication device as far as I am concerned, long as you can get a signal. I always carry my cell phone for emergencies, and it workd great where I generally paddle (inland lakes in Central IL). In fact, if I only carried a VHF radio I would never be rescued as no one monitors VHF in my area. However, when I have been in the Apostle Islands in Lake Superior, I could get no signal. I was glad that I also had my VHF-band radio.

Cell phones don't count when it comes to communicating with other vessels in your area. You might be able to call 911 have them patch you through to the Coast Guard who would then put a call out by VHF to a boat that just missed seeing you in the water as they passed by. I like having both, there are certainly times that the cell phone would make more sense but while on the salt water the common communications thread to all boating is the VHF.

As an aside we paddled the upper Missouri River in Montana this summer with our touring boats. I felt really naked leaving our VHFs and flares behind. We did take cell phones which apparently if you hiked out of the river valley might work and we took our laser flares thinking we might get the attention of a plane (although we neither saw nor heard any during our first three days on the water). It was interesting going back to the pre VHF and cell phone days when we had to get ourselves out of trouble or wait till we were reported missing. I will say we were much more diligent with our float plan than we are when paddling areas where we can call for help.

Michael

Yeah, I def. meant that "serious paddler" was a product of time spent doing the hobby opposed to "ability" (despite them being somewhat related).

Not trying to hijack this thread with a different topic - though cell phones should really be considered secondary means of communications. Regarding the comment about VHF - I believe the the Coast Guard (you know, those people who can actually save you) monitor ALL VHF communications. They also give you a lot of information as well including weather and distress calls.

Like what MikeKayak had said, you also have an ability to communicate with other vessels. (Remember, you are also a vessel, you aren't just "some dude paddling".) It would be one heck of a shame if you could have been rescued by a vessel in the area listening over VHF rather than having to go through the 911 system or something and wasting time. Plus someone might need your help. I don't have a hand-held VHF yet, that is on my list along with a SPOT locator.

KayBee,

Your first boat should not be bought factory direct. Buying a boat from clear across the country without ever paddling it is just not advisable. Who will do the fitting for you? Find yourself a reputable local dealer, and test as many boats as possible.

nidave, as a general rule I can't argue with what you advise, but there are exceptions. In any case, it sure can't hurt to take a look at what is out there. There are some very, very good boats that you will never see at a dealer. And if you are looking for a high end boat that excells in performance, fit and finish, the made to order, might be the way to go.

One thing I definitely have learned is that first impressions based on a limited trial of almost any boat is not a sure thing when it comes to selecting a kayak. Of course there are factors that might disqualify a prospect in a matter of seconds. The bottom line is that there is no sure fire way to know that you are getting your ultimate hole in the water.

If I had gone by my initial impression of paddling my latest purchase, I probably would have crossed it off my list. I was used to a whole different type of boat and wasn't prepared for the type of performance that this boat is designed for. I'm just so happy that I kept an open mind and trusted that the builders really did know what they were talking about. After owning the boat for over a year now and having paddled it for many miles, I'm not sure the builders even know what a fabulous kayak they have produced.

Magooch, beginner is not going to know the difference between high end boat and a boat from a big box store. Beginner has no stroke therefor would not and can not appreciate a better boat. He doesn`t even know what kind of water he wants to paddle in. For example, from reading some of your posts, seems you like to paddle calm waters and not do much playing. That`s why you like the NC`s, very little rocker and tracks straight as an arrow. I like paddling in rough water, eddy lines and rolling my kayak. NC would not be the ideal boat for me. Beginner would be better off taking a series of lessons and learn the basics before spending alot of money on a fancy boat. Paddler makes the boat not the other way around.

nidave, do not assume that I like only calm waters. While I do not paddle in the ocean, I can assure you that where I do paddle offers enough variety in water texture and conditions to keep me satisfied. One of my favorite things to do is surf on the wind waves that are modified by an opposing current. There is a particular spot where the wave-trains are very uniform without the complication of side waves to mess up some nice long slides.

I would never suggest that NC kayaks are a play boat, but make no mistake about their abilities in rough water. I am of course very prejudiced, but I would choose my Expedition every time for the rough stuff. I used to think my Sirocco was good in the slop, and it really is, but it isn't even close to the Expedition.

When I suggest to a beginner that they might want to consider something other than a typical beginner boat, I am doing so in the spirit of exposing them to a performance level that many may not experience if they settle for something less. It has been my observation that all too many beginners either regret their first purchase, or soon tire of it and maybe lose interest.

I don't regret buying any of my boats, but I kind of wish that someone had clued me in about some of the super boats that you just don't see at the average dealer. I refer to sporting goods stores such as Capellas, etc.

I thought we offered KayBee good advice earlier in the thread: KayBee indicated by posting here that he was interested in sea kayaking, and knew something about being on the water. The recommendation of reading some sea kayaking manuals, of looking at Sea Kayaker mag, finding a local sea kayaking group/club, and of getting a cheap, used starter boat in the 16-18 foot, 21-24 inch beam range so that he could get out on the water and figure out what sea kayaking was about and what sort of sea kayaking he might prefer, was pretty sound advice. He can try other people's boats while he assesses his own boat and own preferences, then later he can make an informed choice about the boat of his dreams. But sea kayaking is less about the boat, and more about what's in the kayaker's head.

Well guys, I'm not going to give up so easy on the boat. Yes, the paddler has to have the desire to get out there on the water and immerse himself/herself in nature and the elements, but there is paddling and there is paddling. When I got my first kayak, I thought, yeah, this is real and it can't get any better. I thought the same about the next and the next and I still love those boats, but now that I've experienced my new boat...well, it's a whole new world.

It`s this type of attitude that can get a paddler in trouble. Magooch is an accomplished paddler. Any new paddlers out there reading this please take some lessons, at least know how to save yourself in the event of a capsize. The fastest nicest finished boat can`t put your butt back into a capsized boat. In my opinion it`s 90% paddling ability 10% boat. If you don`t want to look at seakayaking this way your asking for trouble.

Dave, I completely agree with the idea of lessons; they should be, along with reading the sea kayaking manuals, an essential part of becoming involved with sea kayaking. My oversight for not explicitly including lessons in my previous post.

First, let me correct the word "Capellas" I used in one of the above posts. I meant Cabellas.

I didn't think I had said anything that indicated that I would in any way discourage beginners from taking lessons, and, or doing some reading. My only point was that I do not necessarily believe that a beginner is any better off in a typical beginner boat than something of a higher caliber.

This is primarily a sea kayaking forum and I assume that most who partisipate here are interested in sea kayaking, so when starting from scratch, I can't see why it would be wrong to start with a real sea kayak. And that is not to say that I have anything against recreational kayaks, or any others for that matter. I also do not believe that a sea kayak has to be difficult and unstable. And I don't believe that a beginner is any more likely to get into trouble in a sea kayak than they are in a boat with less capability.

I actually got started many years ago in a very tippy one man canoe, which I still have, and I ended up upside down in it in very cold water more than once. I can't say that I didn't learn anything from that boat, but if I weren't so stubborn, I might have been discouraged from getting beyond that boat. Back then, I thought that kayaks were even tippier and required a heck of a lot more skills than I would ever acquire. I couldn't have been more wrong.