Im looking to buy my second kayak. Im 5ft 10" 170lbs and loved the looks of my Impex Mystic. I took lessons with it and its a lively boat but the fit is just too tight for me and I think Id like a little more stability. So I have it up for sale and was looking at the new Eddyline Journey, the CD Willow and a few others( Impex Montauk and Eddylines Fathom LV).I dont want to go beyond 16 ft preferably around 15ft and no more than 50lbs.Im thinking width between 22-24" ,depth of 12-13" .Its the Chine im not sure of, soft or hard.Eddyline uses hard chined and many of the others are soft. If I lean it to cockpit edge which one will give me the most resistance to tipping over.By the same token will that be hard to roll? Im done looking over the dimensions but its too cold now to be demoing .I may have to wait till spring. Anyone own a Willow or Journey?

Corrado, why the 16 ft. limit? There are several boats that are more than 16 feet that are lighter than 50 lbs. If you're worried about maneuverablilty, here again there are lots of boats that are over 16 feet that are extremely easy to handle.

Have you ever tried a CD Gulf Stream?

No I really havent tried many boats at all.I did see the specs on alot of boats and the gulfstream does sound very nice spec wise.But I dont want a large(long) kayak.14-15.5 ft should give me plenty of speed for rivers and lakes and coastal stuff.What about that chine ? Hard like How would you describe the hard chine in leaning the boat compared to a soft chined boat.

The shape of the chine is only one factor in the ease of leaning the boat. Obviously a hard chine on a wide beam is going to make the boat stiffer, whereas a hard chine on a very narrow boat isn't going to make it stiff. The length of the chines also come into play. A boat with very fine ends will get less stability from a hard chine and relatively flat bottom than a boat with extended chines.

Each design factor has pluses and minuses. One must pick his flavor of poison, or combination there of. Until I find reason to change my mind, I am very partial to a soft chine and shallow vee bottom. The soft chine allows what I would call intuitive edging that comes without even thinking about it.

I have no extensive frame of reference except for my own sea kayak, but soft chines are supposed to be very effective in rough, confused water. My CD Sirocco loves choppy water--in that it seems totally oblivious to it.

I would still very seriously recommend to you to consider something a bit longer than 14, or 15 feet. But also be very careful of the rest of the aspects of design. It might be useful to narrow your criteria a bit, because it is not practical to think that you can demo evey boat under the sun. Even if you could, the fact is that it takes a little while to really get the feel of a boat.

I am very partial to British style sea kayaks, especially those of Swede, or sysmetric design (as opposed to fish design). That wouldn't prevent me from considering a North American design, or possibly a Greenland offering, but the point is that it keeps my choice parameters fairly limited and practical.

In my search for another boat, I've narrowed it down to NC Kayaks' 17, or 19 footer, Current Designs Infinity, or Nomad and Maybe a Valley Nordkapp. See, I do compromise on some things.

I've paddled an Eddyline Fathom and own a Nighthawk 16. These are two different animals with the NH having soft chines and the Fathom with hard. I found each having comfortable initial stability but the NH being more predictable. The chines on the Fathom did help it carve turns very well but I really just liked the overall feel of the NH. I imagine the Journey would be simalar to the Fathom but being more stable initially. It really depends on what feels best to you but I recommend no less that 16' as others have.

Gary

Well some of the ones Im considering have long waterline lengths equivalent to 16-17ft kayaks. I know what a 21.5inch beam feels like in a 14ft boat. So I figured I should be much better off with a little more width (23-24") and depth(12-13) and perhaps alittle more length .I didnt think the 14ft Mystic was slow and I loved the maneuverability of a small boat since I will be doing rivers.

Just keep in mind that short doesn't necessarily mean easier to maneuver. My Sirocco at 16'-10" is much, much easier to turn than my sisters 13'-6" boat. I believe the primary aid to turning is rocker.

Finding a boat with the right blend of handling, speed, looks and comfort is the quest. Good luck with yours, but at least consider trying on a Sirocco, or Gulf Stream.

The CD Cypress actually impressed me from the CD ratings of its own boats. I think its time to consider demoing all the ones Im thinking about and a final proof of whats best for me. All these dimension specs are making me goofy.

Please paddle the Cypress! I was VERY impressed. It is my "dream" boat. Still do not have one, but I'm hoping '09
...
I found it a little tricky getting in and out (I'm used to a Kestrel 140), but handling, tracking, manuverablity very good. It is a sweet boat that really picks up speed with minimal effort. There is a previous thread re: Cypress vs Willow as well.
The Cypress was very comfortable, light weight, good amount of storage too. Drop skeg if needed. CD really pays attention to details.
Now that the house is paid for, I'm hoping my husband will let me get one.
After you paddle it, please post what you think.

Hey Happi, remember how I was trying to get you to try out an NC? Well, earlier this year I did demo a couple of them. I don't want to go into all of that again, but what I will say is that after looking at a lot of other boats to fit a very specific paddling niche, I ordered an NC Expedition. It's done now and I'm supposed to go get it Tuesday. Am I excited, or what?

The Expedition will pretty much round out my little fleet. I still very much enjoy my other boats and would never dream of replacing, or selling them. For me at least, there is no single boat that can serve all of my paddling desires. I still marvel at the fact that I am even more amazed at the versatility of my Old Town 138 Loon, after having and paddling sea kayaks.

I'm very much looking forward to what I know is going to be a completely different handling boat (the Expedition). After the brief, but eye opening demo in the boat last April, I know I've got a lot to learn.

I would like to demo a Cypress someday, or its bigger sister the Infinity, but I think I'll leave well enough alone. I would suggest to you, though, that you compare the cypress with the Gulf Stream. I am still amazed at what my Sirocco is capable of.

Merry Christmas to All!

I'm so proud of you! Congradulations on your purchase. I truely hope that your new Expedition is everything you anticipate and then some. I've looked at so many boats now, and like you, believe that I have settled on the right boat for me. Thus, I will hold out for my Cypress.

Until then I'll paddle my darling Kestrel 140. It has proven to be a great all around boat. I am thankful to have such a boat. We, too, have a small fleet. When I know we're going where we are doing a lot of pull-overs (or climb overs) I revert to the indestructable Old Town Castene (Poly boat). It's not as lithe as my Kestrel or as comfortable, but takes a licking and keeps on ticking. I think the only thing that will destroy it is fire.

But visions of a CD Cypress dance in my head...

Happi, here's hoping your dream comes true. I agree, the Cypress is a very good looking boat and the people who tested it for Sea Kayaker liked it too.

I'm about to go nuts waiting for our version of "global warming" to moderate so I can put the Expedition on the water. Meanwhile, I'm trying to develop a snow shoveling stroke that will keep me in shape for paddling.

Merry Christmas

Congrats to the proud new owner and to those w. a dream ;-)

Corrado:

Test paddled a Willow just when it came out in 2007. At 5'3" and 115 lbs, supposedly the "small paddler" for which this boat was designed. It's very well finished. Though it tracked well, it just kind of plodded - not very lively or responsive. Too stable/too wide for me. I did a bunch my usual test strokes: low brace turn, different sweep stokes, a few bow rudders and paddled backwards for fun. It just had a fractional lag. Coming from a Mystic you might be underwhelmed.

Based on what you wrote and the boats you are considering,
I kinda think the Cypress or the Impex Montauk might be promising. The Montauk is a proven hull, it's been around for over 25 years if you consider it for what it is, a descendant (copy) of the Shoreline design by NorthShore kayaks. The early Cypress reviews have all been good; I am a skootch large for it and haven't paddled one. I know two women ~45 lbs bigger than me (hope that is OK to say) who paddled the Cypress and flat out love it, one bought hers last August, the other cherishes the same dream as Hapi (Deb)

If you must stay under 16 ft., might as well throw in the Necky Eliza ( fglass version) which is 15.5 feet. Even tho it's conceptualized for women, it's selling very well w. men.


I paddled w. an Eddyline rep when the Fathom LV first came out. He was paddling it. He goes 6' 190 lbs so you will have plenty of room. Wish Eddyline would make a true LV boat. To my eye the back decks are all too high. Their workmanship is beautiful & the thermoformed finish holds up extremely well in boats I know to be 5 years or older.


Those are all very nice kayaks you are considering. there's nothing magically right about a boat less than 16 feet and you certainly have the size to drive one 16 feet or longer.If you can be coaxed to try boats over 16 ft, it would open up a whole lot of other possibilities.

As to hard chine vs. soft chine, my kayak happens to have a medium chine, yup those exist. See what feels good and moves well under you, that's more important than the chine.

Trust your instincts while you demo the hell out of everything.