I think a rudder is good when your new to the sport but I like the simplicity of a skeg. I like the surf and i'm not good enough yet to go without anything , but that would be the ultimate!

I also have a boat with a rudder and one with a skeg and another without either. They really do handle quite differently...but that rudder sure is nice out in the big waves with the wind blowing one way and then you hit a cross current. One of the previous messages stated that if you do alot of sailing you sure should have a rudder...I concur!!!!!!

As an aside apropos of this. I paddle with my buddy in his feathercraft K2. It has a rudder. It is designed to paddle with a rudder. We found out on a 4 day trip that we left it behind in my van at the takeout. So off we went and we could barely get the boat out of the creek. With a light cross breeze we were working like dogs to stay on course. So, not to say die and loving to solve problems we came up with a fixed skeg from the spare paddle. (tie wraps, baby...don't leave home without them!) Next day I got it up to an adjustable system with cords and adjustments for the sternsman to set the angle.
[image][/image]
Bottom line.... this is a Rolls Royce of boats, but its gotta have the rudder.
(actually this is just a chance to see if I can include a photo in a post and to show how clever I am... I don't get enough validation, I guess).

So, I paddled my new kayak on sunday. I was stretching it out to see how fast it would go. I then dropped the skeg and I could really feel it. I am sure that it will be great when I have a wind, but I will endeavor to paddle without it when I can.

I paddle mostly rivers. If you are going upstream in fast current a rudder will help you duck in and out of eddys. Sometimes in a river if your trying to get someplace quick a rudder may help you cut a better line to shorten the distance and reduce time. With that said I use the rudder very little in a long boat.

I posted a thread regarding the unruly behavior of my P+H CETUS in following seas with 20-35mph winds to our backs, we had 2'-3' wind waves, it should have been a fun day, my paddling partners, all paddling NDK's dusted my ass.
This boat has a lot of rocker and turns on a dime, which is nice!
The skeg however is flimsey at best, good or bad design from P+H?
I've never had a boat with this much rocker, looks like I might have to look at my paddling style, which after thirty years of paddling is second nature to me.
Also the boat is swedeform, any suggestions would be welcome.

Just curious as to how you knew the winds were 20-35 mph.

I could see that coming my old friend.

Cheers

Bill

Bill, I'm the gatekeeper at the Door of Truth when it comes to wind speed reporting! Lousy pay, though.

I always smile when I see a rudder V skeg debate.
There is another here for anyone interested..
http://www.seakayakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=221

My newest boat has neither and that works for me.

Don't complicate things Magooch.......its rudders or skegs!





only kidding mate , its good to throw a curve ball in there to see if there is any more we can get out of a rudder or no rudder debate! Always a fun one.

Timax, I read all the posts in the seakayakforum thread. They reinforce the long-suspected division that exists between paddlers who mostly paddle for distance (explorers) and those who enjoy boat handling--surfing, rolling, bracing--(players). Many paddlers do both, but generally the explorers like rudders, which the wise ones use as variable-azimuth skegs when conditions begin to impede efficient forward travel. Serious rudder-users learn to paddle perfectly well without using the rudder for probably 90% of the time.

Players don't generally need rudders, and find them often a hindrance to their full enjoyment of their boats and their abilities. And our kayaking community has plenty of room for both camps, as well as for feathered/non-feathered; Euro/Greenland; soft chine/hard chine; etc., etc.

Sprayskirts and PFDs are another story, however

Since I got my NC Expedition, which has neither rudder, nor deployable skeg, I now find myself using the skeg on my Sirocco a lot more than I used to. The Expedition has made me realize how much effort I was wasting on corrective paddling. I was always afraid that using the skeg too much would make me too dependant on it. My new philosophy is, the skeg is there, use it any time it makes paddling easier. Why beat yourself up.

I would have to agree with strange magic - being in the explorers camp we have always had rudders though we use them less than 5% of the time we are on the water. We've always considered them a trim tab to be used when more corrective strokes are needed than we find to be fun. If we're playing along a shore the "trim tabs" are always up as they actually impede our ability to turn quickly.