I can see I`m not the only one who has run into sea lion`s that seemed aggresive. I`ve had them come very close and slap the water but never any physical contact. It is an unnerving feeling. I just try to paddle away from them. I wonder if any experianced kayakers have any good advice on techniques to stay out of trouble with the beasts of the deep.

Randy,you are right to be leary of those critters. Most of them are shy enough to not bother you, but it only takes one big bull that's in a bad mood to ruin your day.

Lately, on the Columbia I've noticed that some of the seals have developed a new curiosity about boaters. The smaller seals used to go the other way when I got near them, but now, some of them come right at me. I think some boaters might be feeding them, or they've figured out that there might be a chance to pick up an easy fish. Some of the fishermen I've talked to have had seals remove a fish from their line, without so much as a thank you.

I always feel more comfortable when the sea lions are occupied somewhere other than where I am. As you indicated, it can cause you to almost spill your bladder when one of those buggers comes up next to you and thrashes the water, even if it is only because he was startled by your presence.

Heck ya mag,its kinda like hiking down the trail and fluching a covey of Grouse. Very startling, only in the water it remains alot more spooky. Especialy when they go under and keep coming back. How you doing today? :I`m working all day

I think Sea Lions and Kayakers are both happier if we leave each other alone! What rational reason can there be for getting close a wild animal that weighs more than you and your kayak put together? A photo op? Sorry not worth it.
I give any animal larger than me the right of way.

Its a little tricky to do that when they pop up ten feet away. And they sometime`s don`t look like they have love in thier eye. Obviously the goal is to give them room, not get close to them. the Question in this thread is, does anyone know any good teqnique`s besides the obvious paddling away.

I tend to avoid eye contact & scram if I see one. I once saw a 20 foot boat with its transom missing towed into Friday Harbor. A sea lion was responsible by jumping up on the back of the boat. The beligerant owner wanted to know who was responsible for that animal!?! Some one in thecrowd yelled,"YOU ARE!"
Imagine being in the water with one of them/

My brother-in-law and I were kayaking on the Cowlitz a couple days ago and had a seal go right between us at about a hundred miles an hour. At least I think it was a seal; it was below the surface, so all we saw was its wake. It was like a torpedoe and I had to wonder what it would have felt like if it had hit my kayak. I was kind of glad that I was in my Loon and not my sea kayak.

On one hand, I've read about swimmers getting bitten by sealions, and they're certainly intimidating, especially when they swim rapidly under your kayak and make contact with the bottom of the hull.

On the other hand, I recently saw a video of a scuba diver who went diving with them! The sealions looked like they were trying to tear him apart, but he was fine, he explained, "Sea lions are like dogs, they don't have hands, they ask questions with their teeth. So when you see 4 sea lions all teething my flipper, although it looks bad, in fact it isnt, they're just intelligent and curious animals who want to investigate something they're never seen before, I had to hold onto my mask when they started teething it, of course, but these are huge, powerfull animals that could have torn me limb from limb in an instant, nevertheless, I was fine, no damage to me or me gear at all".

I think they're intelligent enough that you might have certain individuals who develop aggressive behaviour patterns just like certain people do, but in general they're more curious than hostile.

Still, it's easy to be intimidated by them, isn't it? I know I am.

I been diving with both sea lions and seals it's not scary in general and usually a lot of fun. Harbor seals are very shy and usually only try to sneak up behind you. Sea lions are the opposite, they will get right in your face; doing acrobatics and swimming circles around you. Usually it’s the females and juveniles who interact with divers; I’ve only been diving with a bull once.

Most marine life is not there to attack you. Sea lions will become aggressive when trying to steal your fish, if you get too close to their territory on shore, or juveniles swimming in the nursery, otherwise they are probably just curious. Of course, they are wild animals and you might run into one on a bad day. Remember kayakers are coming into close proximity with sea lions on a daily basis on the West Coast, how many attacks have been reported?

Ralph

Dangerous!

I don't care what anyone thinks, an animal that weighs more than a car and can swim faster than Mark Phelps is a menace when they come up our rivers. They belong in the ocean--period. At least there the fish have a chance. In rivers like the Columbia, it is a killing ground (water) for the sea lions that decimate our fish runs.

The ignorant environmentalists who think that the seals and sea lions are just making a living have most likely not witnessed a pod of sea lions tearing fish apart, just for the fun of it when they've got their bellies full.

While attacks by sea lions may be rare, they are far from being unheard of and I think they will become more frequent as the animals become more familiar with people and the little boats we paddle. Just a few years ago, it was rare to see a seal, or sea lion up close. They were very shy and would go out of their way to stay clear. In the past few years the sea lions and seals have become very curious and now will go out of their way to check you out. I've had them follow me for some distances and a lot closer than I felt comfortable with. They most likely aren't contemplating any kind of attack, but they just might want to have a closer look at your kayak. I've seen pictures of small seals sitting on the bow of a kayak. I don't know about you, but I don't want a 3000 lb sea lion resting on any of my boats.

This might seem extreme to some, but I think the natural balance was much better when the commercial fishermen used to instill fear in the beasts when they came up the river and messed around with their nets.

A little update about water lions; a labrador retriever was killed by a sea lion when it went after a stick that its owner had thrown in the river (Columbia). It just happens that where this occured is where I launch all the time.

Magooch, what is the evidence for your statement that sea lions belong (only) in the ocean? Who was on the river first--people or sea lions? Did God make sea lions and put them where they are? But I'm glad you made it clear that you don't care what anybody thinks.

Yeah, well God made wolves and bears and all kinds of other creatures too and I don't think man has to defer to their so-called rights either. God also made man and gave us dominion over all creatures.

Until you've been here and witnessed the wanton destruction and decimation of our fish and worse--the spooking of kayakers, I think you should reserve your criticism.

As to the argument about who was there first; when I was a kid, you had to go to the ocean to see a sea lion. And back in those days, they had a natural fear of man. Today they don't.

I don't want to share my backyard with a grizzly bear and I don't want to share the local rivers with 3000 lb. beasts. The courts have seen fit to allow up to 85 of these things to be destroyed each year. There are thousands of local fishermen that think that number should be 850, or more.

I'm pretty sure if you had to deal with thousands of agressive sharks, or aligators in the waters where you kayak you might be a little more sympathetic to what we have to put up with.

This thread seems to be getting a bit off-track. That being said, it should be noted that in the natural course of things sea lions eat very little salmon. Salmon are fast, hard to catch and bottom fish are easier. Sea lions can catch a lot of salmon only when humans put barriers in the way of salmon migration. Barriers such as dams or nets.

Sea lions are intelligent and adaptable, that goes with being a large predator. They will feed from any source they can find. For humans to argue about what is "natural" for a sea lion and then insist that the sea lions confine themselves to just that behavior is a bit silly!

I like salmon and sea lions and am not really sure what I would like to see done. One thought does intrude; if we were so concerned about the survial of salmon we would not have built the dams in the first place.

Osprey--Amen, Brother.

So now we're supposed to do without electricity and flood protection too, just so the sea lions can have free range. I don't think so. you guys are living in a differnt world that has a whole different notion of reality. Man is not at the bottom of the food chain, or any other chain and we've moved beyond strict nature a long time ago.

We are never going to agree on this subject, so there's no sense getting in a snit over it. I would still invite you to come on out to the Columbia and take a look and watch a group of sea lions ripping salmon to pieces for the sport of it. Watch what happens when a couple of bull sea lions park themselves at the mouth of one of our small spawning streams. You really need to see the predation for yourselves before you proclaim that these creatures have little affect on the salmon population.

I would also invite you to bring your kayaks and paddle amongst a pod of these monsters and see what a warm fuzzy feeling it gives you. I give these buggers a wide, wide berth whenever I see them, but sometimes you find yourself right in the middle of them and they have a way of letting you know that you aren't welcome.

Concerning the place of seals/sea lions on the Columbia, Lewis and Clark noted their presence as far upstream as Celilo Falls. Check out http://columbiariverimages.com/Regions/Places/sea_lions.html

I think I've been missunderstood. I do not advocate the removal of dams on the Columbia River. I am not sure if its even physically possible. What was done in the past is done and not easily undone.

I just point out that in building the dams we decided that electricity, flood control and irrigation were more important to us than salmon. I just thought it was a very strange about-face for society as a whole: we put mega tons of concrete in the path of salmon migration then act like we care so much about salmon that we want to shoot sea lions.

Hey! we didn't shoot the dam builders :-) (that's a joke!)

And if anyone checks out my earlier post they would know that I consider sea lions dangerous enough to keep my distance. That doesn't mean I have any contempt for sea lions, I appreciate them they same way I apppreciate all creatures, and most humans.

[quote=magooch]So now we're supposed to do without electricity and flood protection too,

I grew up on the west coast in northern California and southern Oregon working on family owned commercail fishing boats and have seen sea lions follow boats taking salmon off the lines only eating the mid section out of the fish and then getting another and doing the same, They are as wasteful as people. I have seen sea lions several miles up undamed rivers feeding on salmon. A person can just about walk across the backs of sealions on Klamath, Ell and mad rivers when the salmon are running. We never had any problem with sealions when we were fishing for bottom fish.

I have had sea lions (or seals I'm not actually sure how to tell from just the head poking up) come up near my boat and look curiously at me. I think they are just curious about what is this strange, noiseless thing going along... since most boaters are making a lot of noise with their engines.
I would certainly never intentionally approach them. Even an accidental bump could result in a very cold, wet spill.
Back when I lived in Northern California, I know it was necessary to stay clear of seals... the elephant seals only look clumsy on land. They can cover ground at a good clip, weigh a bunch and are territorial! I would expect sea lions to be the same.

tomsjeep,
This subject, as you might have seen, has been hashed about pretty well. My own experience is that seals and sea lions are usually harmless, but they spook the heck out of me. At various times they are thick in our rivers and it's common to have close encounters. My theory is that it would only take one time for one of the big bulls (up to 3000 lbs.) to totally ruin your day. They are wild animals and unpredictable. I don't even like the harbor seals, which have popped up right next to me and scared the crap out of me. I leave them alone and expect the same from them.

I see sea lions almost every time out. If you are in a kayak, they are not dangerous. However, they are territorial at times. When you approach their females and young, a male will usually let you know you should leave. It is impossible to not get the message, they know how to dissuade intruders. If you stop approaching, there is never any problem. If you ignore the warning or otherwise bug them, you are asking for a fight you will lose, and you are breaking federal law. Lots of people here in the NW want to kill sea lions, usually on account of the salmon they eat. I say they are entitled to their share of the salmon. We can live with them, they enrich our lives.

I'm not a fisherman, but I do like to eat salmon. I haven't met one fisherman who felt his life has been enriched by sea lions--especially those who chase the salmon up the Columbia and some of the tributaries.

As a kayaker, I feel much more enriched when the sea lions are out in the Pacific, which is "the sea" where they belong. Hey, I would even concede the mouth of the Columbia to these beasts, but I will never believe that they are doing anything but harm when they transgress beyond the saltwater.

I have witnessed many times the malicious killing of salmon, sturgeon and other species, just for the sport of it, by sea lions--seemingly when their bellies are full.

PhilS, I hope you're right that sea lions don't pose a danger to kayakers, but I know for a fact that the same does not apply to dogs that are swimming where sea lions are present. Last year, a black lab was killed by a lion as it was retrieving a stick that its master had thrown in the river.

Better question: are they delicious ? :->

Ive only had two encounters with seals/Sea Lions on both land and sea. Granted, both times I was just minding my business.
My first experience was when I visited the Galapagos Islands, I was awestruck at the breath taking beauty of the island and was oblivious to the fact that i was right in the middle of a harem of female sea lions. when i was charged by a male Who must have been protecting his harem of females. I did not see him until he charged out of the water and started to chase me down the beach. No harm was done to either myself or the sea lion.
The second encounter I had was when I was sea kayaking in Vancouver BC. A seal used the stern of my boat as a sunning spot. All I felt was the slight jarring of the boat and a scream of excitement from my boating partner. I'm not sure what I think about this Salmon VS seal debate. However, I do know that they are wild animals and the people who try and hand feed them are just stupid. Maybe that's where the problem lies is in the people NOT the animals. Animals are just trying to survive in a world consumed by man.

I paddle the waters of Kangaroo Island, South Australia.

Lots of seal and sealion colonies here

It's not the seals and sealions I'd be worried about - it's the great white shark that hunts them that worries me!

A friend of mine, years ago, who was a professional diver in the ship salvage/repair business (and a former trainer of Army Rangers) told me that he had to deal with sea lions sometimes. It was his belief that sea lions look into a person's eyes and that their behavior is effected by what they perceive that way. I am not sure now precisely what he meant but I have a long-held belief that dogs are like that too.

My plan is to not get close enough to sea lions to have them look into my eyes. The same goes for dogs that weigh more than a ton.

Just found this topic.
I'm a little late but I was wondering the same thing about sea-lions last Jan. when I was retrieving ducks on Adak I.. I had some close encounters under the kayak. I tried to stick to shallow water but once in a while I had to paddle way out to get a downed bird. It was kinda spooky but in the end no problems. They were big, I think Steller's Sea Lions maybe? Gnarly kayaking out there too say the least. Sorry for the late reply.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00427/wdfw00427.pdf

First, I went to the zoo visiting Large Seals Inc. I osmosed.

Then Cape Flattery and Hearst's beach haulout following a huge storm last fall.

A harbor seal and I are on speaking terms on Haro Strait. The harbor takes time out to come by, alert to approaching Orca, waves from Bailer's Rocks.

For several weeks, a Stellar from Tatoosh was off Lime Kiln. He stayed 120' plus from me, breathing deep. I breathed with him. He breathed with me. Get it ?

Two stories.

Went above Tatoosh on the road above the parking area for sea lion observation. After several hours, I tried telepathic contact with the head male, using binoculars.

Head male turned toward me ! looked around for me, began bellowing. The assembled females awoke. Apparently, the head male had broken a rule - why bellow ?

The females mobbed him, a melee ! Two females were grabbed by the ruff, heaved over the side - outgoing tide - 6-8' down.

At the over the side,a wave of discontent arose, the male was overwhelmed.

He flattened himself on the rock covering head with flippers. Very flexible, spine up, blubbber down flounderlike.

At Hearst's, primed by Tatoosh, I circled the lot twice, getting something of a welcome from the homonids. then took time developing local rapport before walking to the boardwalk's head.

The storm was a rough one. Seals were basking. The usual seal beach photos.

I was mentally looking for a seal to speak with.

Ahead, midst a circle of larger sleeping seals rose a huge flipper held aloft then waving at me !

On a beach OF 2-300 snored off seals.

There you go.

NOT SO FAST !

an elaboration for post 4540.

consider the head male's position: sensitivities, awareness, need to excercise power, irrritability and cooperation. I cannot recall 'cooperation' among attributes viewed under 'sea lion harem.'

He was/is so tuned in with his achieved position, he immediately heard my contact, looked around for a foe, found none, sounded the alarm or sought to raise a foe.

Finding he was the problem, he fell back.

When I was about thirteen years old I tried to get close to a large bull in my 7 ft duckboat in open water on Richardson's Bay. He kept swimming away but whenever I saw him surface I would pursue. After a while the sea lion tired of this little game and he surfaced near me roaring loudly while giving a look that needed no interpretation. I stopped intentionally harassing sea lions at that moment. My little boat felt extra small and it was a long way back to shore. In the 1970's I was chased by a sea lion when I motored close to rocky Pt. Blunt on Angel Island one afternoon in the early 1970's. I was going along about 10-12 kts in a small aluminum boat when the sea lion appeared alongside barking and giving me the stink eye while jumping out of the water on a parallel course but angling closer with each leap. I was frightened and got out of there quick. When I trolled for salmon commercially in the mid-70's a lot of commercial fishermen shot at sea lions. Sea lions would follow trollers stealing what ever they caught. Sea lions that have been injured by fishermen, or that have seen friends, lovers, or relatives injured or killed by fishermen might not appreciate being approached by humans. They can also be very territorial, especially when mating. I was a sea urchin harvester from the late 70's until the early 90's and I never heard of sea lions causing a problem for divers in California however some divers working out of Port Orford Oregon reported being bitten on the head by male sea lions. Evidently this is some form of sea lion domination display. The divers reported that the sea lions put their mouth over the top of the divers head biting down hard enough to cause pain while roaring and blowing stinky hot breath. Understandably, this scared the s**t out of the divers who experience this. This happened on a particular reef when the sea lions were breeding. Some divers were bit harder than others but none (that I heard of) suffered serious injury. A problems I experienced at Fort Bragg one year in the 1980's was when several large sea lions include big bulls decided to make a home for themselves on our dock and they refused to let us pass to get to our boat. We tried spraying them with water from a hose but they seemed to enjoy that. A hand held air-horn seemed to work just fine. They respect a creature that can bark louder than they can. PS Although it was a common practice at the time, I never shot at sea lions. I stopped fishing in the mid-90's. The only thing I shoot is a camera.

I liked them better when they confined themselves to the sea. When they became river lions, I lost my toleration for them. The Stellers certainly do have a way of letting you know that your kayak and paddle don't intimidate them one little bit.

looks like an older forum, but hopefully magooch has become a little more enlightened. Even if we refer to the biblical term of dominion, we should consider this in an entirely new context of an overpopulated, overpolluted, overstressed planet, and consider the need for responsibility and stewardship rather than master and slave. We need to see ourselves as part of the greater global system and how can we promote more natural environment. We run into conflict when we extend into their areas not the other way around. We have crowded the rest of the natural world so much we are creating more conflict every day. I would hope this would be clear to most kayakers, maybe harder to understand for a jetskier.

For the dog owner he led his dog into harms way. If you are so concerned would you launch with a sea lion swimming in the area? would you show more concern than the dog owner did for his pet.

finally, I have an old sea lion (perception) and it has never hurt me ....... or my dog. If even took me an island off the coast Maine this summer!

The animal communications research I'm involved with sez animals are telepathic. You too even if you're too busy to notice the effect. You read the Tatoosh story ? An honest and accurate account.

Given the fact sea lion is not there to eat you, aggression is territorial defense, maybe your SL is paranoid ?

Reorient your mind into a receptive mode, stop paddling, place paddle across cockpit, breath out audibly, and smile at the SL. Don't show your teeth, smile.

The SL will swim to your hull, grasp the bow, drag you under and eat you.

Well dougie, I'm just enlightened enough to leave sea lions alone and hope that they leave me alone. On the other hand, as unenlightened as you might think it is, I don't necessarily believe that any animal has any more right to any inch of ground, or water on this planet than what it can win by whatever means. If it comes down to me, or the sea lions being able to claim my favorite paddling areas, the sea lions are in for a fight.